4 ms·

When an employee leaves, it's a collective failure. Failure of his mentor, his colleagues and the senior leadership.

fistfuck 11y ago
I don't think so. There's plenty of reasons that someone might leave a job that doesn't imply failure on anyone's part. Maternity can change lives, when the kids move our they might want to move somewhere, or maybe start their own business. None of these possibilities reflects a short coming in anyone involved. Just my take but I think employment is a lot more fluids than HN headlines would have someone believe.
- csydas 11y ago
  I would agree with this, though also add that I believe the rant is largely focused on the business aspects of why people leave their jobs. I understood the absence of this discussion as a concession that there are some decisions made in a business that have little or nothing to do with business, and as such, that business cannot influence as heavily. Such decisions may indeed be bolstered by business choices (not getting enough pay anyways, no where to go anyways, and so on), but if the impetus is a non-business decision, then it's likely no amount of negotiation or "shielding" will change the outcome. At least, in my experience, such tactics usually come more as a slap in the face rather than a tempting offer.
edent 11y ago
Utter tosh! I actively encourage my employees to think about a future outside their present company. Sometimes people take the job they need - not the job they want. If you're stuck programming databases for a bakery, and NASA asks you to help land a rover on Mars - what can the baker do to keep you employed? That's not a failure - a person's needs doesn't always align with business desires.
- geofft 11y ago
  Maybe a better phrasing is that when an employee leaves unexpectedly, it's a failure of management. Which it is, because the very purpose of management is to keep things managed. So you can either pretend that employees will never leave and try to make that as true as possible, which is a poor way to manage the situation (but better than not paying attention at all), or you can try to figure out which employees are likely to leave and what you should do about it.
- cballard 11y ago
  > what can the baker do to keep you employed? Pay more, offer better benefits, and give more PTO.
scotch_drinker 11y ago
Part of that collective is the employee. We all have influence over our situation and the employee is never blameless. This "victim complex" can be just as detrimental as the failure of any of the three people you listed. It's far easier to get your feelings hurt and leave than it is to find out the truth. Just like it's far easier to not spread the truth in fear of the consequences than it is to deal with issues if you are a manager. It may be a collective failure but the collection is bigger than you think it is.

I don't think so. There's plenty of reasons that someone might leave a job that doesn't imply failure on anyone's part. Maternity can change lives, when the kids move our they might want to move somewhere, or maybe start their own business. None of these possibilities reflects a short coming in anyone involved. Just my take but I think employment is a lot more fluids than HN headlines would have someone believe.

csydas 11y ago
I would agree with this, though also add that I believe the rant is largely focused on the business aspects of why people leave their jobs. I understood the absence of this discussion as a concession that there are some decisions made in a business that have little or nothing to do with business, and as such, that business cannot influence as heavily. Such decisions may indeed be bolstered by business choices (not getting enough pay anyways, no where to go anyways, and so on), but if the impetus is a non-business decision, then it's likely no amount of negotiation or "shielding" will change the outcome. At least, in my experience, such tactics usually come more as a slap in the face rather than a tempting offer.

edent 11y ago

Utter tosh! I actively encourage my employees to think about a future outside their present company. Sometimes people take the job they need - not the job they want. If you're stuck programming databases for a bakery, and NASA asks you to help land a rover on Mars - what can the baker do to keep you employed? That's not a failure - a person's needs doesn't always align with business desires.

geofft 11y ago
Maybe a better phrasing is that when an employee leaves unexpectedly, it's a failure of management. Which it is, because the very purpose of management is to keep things managed. So you can either pretend that employees will never leave and try to make that as true as possible, which is a poor way to manage the situation (but better than not paying attention at all), or you can try to figure out which employees are likely to leave and what you should do about it.
cballard 11y ago
> what can the baker do to keep you employed? Pay more, offer better benefits, and give more PTO.

scotch_drinker 11y ago

Part of that collective is the employee. We all have influence over our situation and the employee is never blameless. This "victim complex" can be just as detrimental as the failure of any of the three people you listed. It's far easier to get your feelings hurt and leave than it is to find out the truth. Just like it's far easier to not spread the truth in fear of the consequences than it is to deal with issues if you are a manager. It may be a collective failure but the collection is bigger than you think it is.