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Gas Theft Gangs Fuel Pump Skimming Scams
- presidentender 11y agoJust based on the headline, I had guessed that some enterprising miscreant had figured out how to siphon off some of the gas as customers were fueling - perhaps through a small tap on the line.
- klenwell 11y agoThe way I've seen it done around here (Southern California) is more social hack than technical hack: the enterprising miscreant comes up to you with a gas canister while you're pumping and gives you some sob story how he lost his wallet and needs a few gallons to get back down to San Diego. The article involves a scam that is slightly larger potatoes and was newer than I expected. I was under the impression that skimmer problem had been largely neutralized (not sure where I got the idea, maybe something to do with new chip card rollout). Guess not.
- thrownaway2424 11y agoIn what way is that a scam?
- CamperBob2 11y agoOnce you give him some gas, he sloshes the can in your direction and threatens you with a lighter to get you to hand over your credit card. Or something. I'm having trouble understanding this scam as well.
- bookmarkacc 11y agoHis family is fine and he just got a few gallons for free off you. Do this a few times to different people and you got like $20
- pavel_lishin 11y agoDo... do they then sell the gas? Or do they just get free gas?
- praneshp 11y agoI think the scam would be taking a look at your PIN number when you fill his canister up.
- donarb 11y agoAnother low tech scam involves thieves swapping pump handles on two sided pumps. You swipe your card and the thief on the other side of the pump gets a free fillup. Takes a bit of coordination to not get caught, but most people don't pay attention when they're filling up. http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/3869514-181/low-tech-thieves-target-customers-at http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/3869514-181/low-tech-thiev...
- skeuo 11y agoThe real solution here is to have contactless chip & pin systems at the pump, but apparently that is years away because of cost. In the meantime I find the best way to monitor my CC expenses is to enable SMS/Push alerts for any transaction above $0. This way I always expect to get an alert at the point of sale for any transaction. Anything unknown is a red flag and it also works well for subscriptions that I may forget about and want to cancel.
- pki 11y agoIt's a shame that chip and signature is used in the states though..
- toast0 11y agoThe problem with chip and pin is: A) you want me to type my pin into a compromised device, the pinpad at the pump B) you expect me to remember seven pins, I carry seven credit cards (yes that's excessive) and each should have a separate pin for security, right?
- Retric 11y agoNo, an actual chip should be secure enough to make skimmers pointless. However, we somehow desided to built and roll out a completely insecure chip system. Ex of a simple and secure system. cc shows transaction cost, user clicks ok on the card. Card digitally signs a transaction with time stamp, vender ID, and amount. Want safe online transactions, add a USB dongle or Bluetooth.
- TwoBit 11y agoDo you have a reference for why it's "completely insecure"?
- Terr_ 11y agoI think the idea is that it's reasonably-secure against skimmers taking your data and then re-using that data in another session or location when the card is absent. But it won't save you from a compromised point-of-sale system that lies to you about how much you're paying or which commits fraudulent transactions while the card is still in the reader.
- mindslight 11y agoGiven the sensationalist scare quotes (such as there possibly being 30 of these unsafe trucks in existence), I presume the Secret Service is going after Mastercard and Visa for their willful negligence that created this situation?
- elwell 11y agoOrder gas straight to your car with my startup, Purple, and avoid the concern entirely. https://purpledelivery.com/app https://purpledelivery.com/app (LA, OC, & San Diego)
- jlgaddis 11y agoHow do we know you aren't buying stolen gas from these gangs? /s
- ceejayoz 11y agoWhy /s? That's actually a really good question.
- avree 11y agoProbably should mention that you're only serving specific locales in the app description. Looks cool, though, would be interested when you come to San Francisco.
- sandworm101 11y agoThese guys are criminals. Someone should be going after them. But the secret service? This should be handled by the CC industry. US pumps should have chips like they do in most every other developed nation. It's an arms race, but prevention is easier than investigation. And do not blame "the attendants". I worked as a light mechanic at one of the last truly full service stations. The pump/retail guys are payed minimum wage on flexible shifts to do a job that is actually rather dangerous. Only one of possibly a hundred attendants may know anything about the skimmer install. The guys who own/run the stations should also not be above suspicion. My bosses were some rather shady characters.
- superdude 11y agoOne of the main duties of the secret service is investigating the counterfeiting of U.S. currency and access device fraud (including credit and debit fraud). http://www.secretservice.gov/investigation/ http://www.secretservice.gov/investigation/
- gavazzy 11y agoOne of the two focuses of the secret service is financial crimes: "Financial Crimes, covering missions such as prevention and investigation of counterfeit U.S. currency, U.S. treasury securities, and investigation of major fraud." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service
- sandworm101 11y agoI am well aware of their various duties. That doesn't detract from my point that enforcement by such an agency is a remarkably inefficient means of addressing the problem.
- graeme 11y agoWhy? You haven't said anything about the organization that would let us judge if they're effective or not. Prima facie this is within their purview.
- mSparks 11y agosince they made it so any loss on a card when used with a stolen pin is the cardholders liability. I stopped using my card completely and went back to cash. now know several people who have lost thousands from having their chip and pin cards cloned. they've gone back to cash now too.
- nraynaud 11y agoThere is some kind of genius in the propaganda around the gas thieves. They are stealing stuff, but let's paint them even darker by saying their trucks are unsafe. You know what's probably more unsafe? a policeman with a gun. But the prosecutor is elected, every case is more than a legal case, it's an election campaign PR operation, you have to win indictment, the trial and the reelection with every case. I just love it, nobody can state anything objectively and with detachment anymore, everything is politically overloaded, even stuff that could be even as consensual as thievery.
- mschuster91 11y ago> They are stealing stuff, but let's paint them even darker by saying their trucks are unsafe These things are literal rolling bombs. Diesel is not as critical (it doesn't emit explosive vapours and you need higher temperatures to get it to burn, and unless you vaporize it it will just burn and not explode), but take one of these trucks with 1 ton of petrol in plastic tanks and you got yourself a pretty nice fire/explosion hazard. Not to mention that ordinary plastic gets attacked by the petrol and thus will be weaker than the same tank filled with water. All this needs to go off is a single drunk driver slamming into such a truck. To those who still think "ah that's harmless, just a fire", go visit your local fire department at an exercise session and watch how powerful just a liter of burning petrol is, then scale this up to a 1-ton-payload truck spewing the stuff everywhere. There's a reason why ordinary fuel trucks are heavily regulated (e.g. in Germany, they're not allowed on roads in environmentally protected zones, must carry a number of fire extinguishers, have a speed limit of 60 km/h on country roads and 80 km/h on Autobahns, the drivers must be specially licensed).
- nraynaud 11y agoWe are not talking about Europe, we are taking about the US, there is no real safety regulation on the streets, and people heavily mod cars on the war tank model (rigid box for everybody). It's not 30 sketchy tanks in a State the size of Germany that will add any significant risk. Every single handy US guy will weld his own tank instead of buying a plastic one because it's manly and DIY. And they love gas: for the home generator connected to the AC in the summer when the electricity is out, because in the wild everything works with gas engines, because of boating, for preparation to the apocalypse etc. So many reasons to make your own welded gas tank.
- dsharlet 11y ago> “The stations know they’re buying stolen gas,” Scarince said. “They’re fully aware the fuel is not coming from a legitimate source. There’s never any paperwork with the fuel driver, and these transactions are missing all the elements of a normal, legitimate transaction between what would be a refinery and a gas station.” This seems like the easiest way to tackle this problem (aside from chip cards). I doubt it would take much pressure on these guys to get the market for this to dry up, or at least considerably reduce the profitability. I'd guess the gas station owners have a lot more to lose than the thieves actually stealing gas.
- mschuster91 11y agoYou have to prove that they accepted stolen gas. Which isn't exactly easy, given the number of gas stations. Also, the Mafia is experienced at moving and selling drugs in larger quantities than the gas thefts here - I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't any "neighborhood fuel delivery services".
- staunch 11y agoSelling stolen gas should be penalized with a lifetime ban on owning or operating a gas station.
- lucaspiller 11y agoI'm surprised that running a gas station isn't more regulated, i.e. being required to provide reports of how much has been sold, how much has been delivered, and who it was purchased from (and eventually using ANPR to say who bought how much :D).
- TwoBit 11y agoIf that were the case then the same approach might stop cooper theftvas well.
- FireBeyond 11y agoAs a firefighter, this is an issue around here (Washington state). People steal the brass end caps off hydrants. Dozens of them. Sell them to scrap metal places. That conversation, I'm certain, doesn't go like "Oh, hey, I'm Bob from the Fire Department, getting rid of old hydrant caps" "Oh, sure! Sounds legit, Bob, let me give you some cash!"
- jimjimjim 11y agoThe rest of the world had to put up with the EMV change-over. But the US just keeps delaying and delaying. If the card industry applied the same tactics to the US then merchants would switch over pretty quickly e.g if the shop doesn't have emv certified chip card terminals then the shop has to accept the loss from the fradulant transaction.
- spiralpolitik 11y agoThat is now the case for retail since October 2015. Any fraudulent transaction using the magstripe and the retailer is responsible for the loss. The rollout has been slow but I think the only major chain I use on a daily basis that hasn't got chip readers is Starbucks. This doesn't apply to gas stations until October 2017. Assuming that the card industry doesn't blink, the problem should solve itself fairly quickly given that margins on gas stations are razor thin so if they have to eat the fraud then they will be lining up to install the new readers.
- csense 11y agoGo inside and pay with cash. Problem solved.
- MikeNomad 11y agoYep. Have not had problems where people try to skim my cash.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- srik 11y agoIs opting to pay inside with card only in some states?
- derekp7 11y agoThe problem is most gas stations are pre-pay now. So if you want to pay with CC inside, you have to make two trips -- one to give them your card to hold onto while you pump gas, and a second trip to finalize the transaction and get your card back. Unless you know you are buying exactly $xx.xx of gas (and not a fill up), then you could just do one trip to the register.
- scurvy 11y agoPlaying devil's advocate here, why do I care (as a consumer) if my credit card number is stolen? I'm not responsible for illegitimate charges as long as I report them within a reasonable time. That's generally accepted to be up to 40 days considering paper billing cycles. Why do people sign up for text alerts and notifications on smartphone apps for certain purchase amounts? You're just doing the credit card company's job for them. At that point, what's the point? You're probably getting a new card number in a few days anyway. Not trying to be flippant, I'm genuinely curious why people obsess over some of this as a consequence-free user.
- nlawalker 11y ago>> You're just doing the credit card company's job for them. In what way? You stated in your first paragraph that it's your responsibility to report fraud. Regardless, it's not about being responsible for the charges, it's about not having to read a full credit card statement every month, looking for potentially fraudulent charges in a list of transactions made days or weeks prior. With a notification, I'm not looking at my credit card bill trying to figure out what the $45 charge to "AAZZYBD Ind. Co. Ltd." was (could be an Olive Garden, could be a gas station, could be a deep web retail site).
- scurvy 11y agoI've found that they will detect the fraud before I do. Like they always have. It's your responsibility to report fraud, but they're the big loser so they have more incentive to find the bad purchases ASAP. Going through notifications after each purchase, or looking at a monthly bill, you're doing the same thing but in different time periods. We're all on the brink of app notification overload, I don't need one for each purchase I or my wife makes.
- raverbashing 11y agoReally? Because your card gets cancelled and you have to wait for a new one to come in the mail Oh but you're not home and are travelling instead. Good luck paying for your hotel then
- mikepalmer 11y agoLove the snappy title for this post... It's poetry.
- jpalomaki 11y agoBanks, credit card companies: Give me an API for accessing my own data. Give me an opportunity to set a callback address that gets pinged whenever my card is used somewhere. Even better: make it possible for this callback to decline transactions (obviously this comes with certain problems). This would open up innovation and I'm sure this would lead to interesting solutions for combatting the fraud.
- pm24601 11y agoI am sure the scammers would love such an API as well. Then the could model their fraudulent transactions on yours. For example, they would make sure to go to the gas stations that you frequent. Or to the electronics store that you made a purchase at recently. I worked at Citibank. They are barely competent. Don't ask for more access, they will probably screw it up.
- jpalomaki 11y agoIn EU something a little bit like this will become mandatory for banks. To my understanding one part of Payment Service Directive 2 (PSD2) is that banks will be required to allow third party access to bank account statements (on customers permission, of course). http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-15-5793_en.htm?locale=en http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-15-5793_en.htm?loc...
- pm24601 11y agoPresumedly, those third party providers need to have some sort of security audit, bonded or somehow "known".
- ck2 11y agoat $2/gallon theft should go down somewhat? personally I use cash everywhere I can, it's not just tinfoil-hat thinking, it's far less hassle for everywhere else, just use low-balance gift cards