5 ms·
Not really. I've done pretty well in my current app with Turbolinks partial replacements. You can do more fine grain changes such as appends. You can tell Tur
by dham 11y ago
Not really. I've done pretty well in my current app with Turbolinks partial replacements. You can do more fine grain changes such as appends. You can tell Turbolinks which part of the page you want to update. So if you have a counter in the nav and a counter in the footer, when someone clicks a button your response can update those other sections as well.
We've never had anybody complain about speed. If you can return responses in 100-300ms your good to go.
I do know it's limitations and that's keeping a lot of state in the client. In that case I'll usually fall back to rivets or vuejs. Yes I said fall back. People tend to go to a JS framework as the first solution. In my experience that's usually not a good idea. You'd be surprised how little you need a JS library, with a solution like Turbolinks
- ricardobeat 11y ago> I do know it's limitations and that's keeping a lot of state in the client. In that case I'll usually fall back to rivets or vuejs Exactly. We have always been able to do ajax loading even before Turbolinks. Client-side applications are a whole different matter, they have a level of interactiveness that is way beyond what's possible by sticking to server-side rendering. This is not a pissing contest, I just think your comment missed the point.
- dham 11y agoFunny thing is, I haven't had a single customer asking for platform agnostic backend services. I'll make sure I ask them about that though. I can do all those things pretty easily with partial replacement. By a lot of state I mean things like highly interactive forms. This is where I've typically used Knockout or Angular in the past. From what I see, developers these days use javascript frameworks for ridiculous things, and it's out of hand. I haven't been to a single website that uses React, Angular or EmberJS that actually needs it. From what I can tell the background of React is, Facebook couldn’t create a notification indicator on Facebook.com, so they create this over engineered dump pile to solve that problem. Now they can tell you how many unread posts you have while downloading 15 terabytes of Javascript. Sprint.ly wrote a kanban board in React. As a customer I didn't care, there service already worked fine. Seems they've abandoned it at this point though. Probably couldn't take the React churn, or all the engineers have jumped to the next latest framework. Don't get me started on Discourse. Netflix.com, viewing some movies and ratings? Been to several article sites that use React. For what? Yahoo.com re wrote mail client in React. Guess what no one cared. It worked fine when they owned Zimbra. Catch my drift?
- alextgordon 11y agoIt's primarily a speed-of-light issue. If the server is on the New Jersey and I'm in London, it takes a perceptible amount of time for the signal to travel between continents. The only way to remove this latency is for the client to take full responsibility for building the UI, instead of playing a complicated game of ping pong across the Earth. While I don't particularly like React, that's what they're aiming for.
- dham 11y agoThe funny thing is, a lot of websites I visit that use client side frameworks don't make optimistic/eager updates to the UI. You click a button, it hits the server does the update, then updates the button state. Therefore they're waiting for the roundtrip to the server before making the update anyway. Just because something is possible doesn't mean people are actually using it. To make some optimistic updates you have to duplicate logic on client and server. It just gets really hairy especially when you're using auto increment id's in your database. That's just one of the problems. The complications it creates isn't even worth it. I'd rather just put a server in London. A lot less hassle then dealing with this over engineered client side bullshit.
- tutuca 11y agoLots of funny things, apparently...
- nilliams 11y ago> A lot less hassle then dealing with this over engineered client side bullshit. I like to deal with client-side apps which talk to a simple JSON API. It's a lot less hassle than dealing with this over engineered server side bullshit.
- dham 11y agoJSF with Java EE. That was over engineered. This Redux flux capicator, isomorphic, 4 Terabyte NPM install, 45 Babel plugin, flow, dumb component pure functional, immutable js, virtual dom. Now that's over engineered. I built more complicated stuff with Knockout.js in 2011 then half the stuff I see people building with React(which from what I see is just news sites and forum software)