4 ms·

> but calling it AI still doesn't make sense to me. That's the core problem of AI, no matter what progress is made, it's instantly called not AI anymore while

> but calling it AI still doesn't make sense to me. That's the core problem of AI, no matter what progress is made, it's instantly called not AI anymore while the goalpost of what AI is is continually being pushed out to not this. The real issue of course is what don't how intelligence actually works so it's impossible to set a fixed goalpost of when AI is truly achieved.

jacquesm 11y ago
The reason behind that is probably that a large enough collection of interconnected algorithms executing simultaneously may be indistinguishable from intelligence. The questions then becomes 'what is large enough' and 'which algorithms', and this is where we may be off by much more than our most optimistic guesses and that still leaves the possibility of being flat-out wrong about this.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  > that a large enough collection of interconnected algorithms executing simultaneously may be indistinguishable from intelligence Or is intelligence.
maaku 11y ago
> The real issue of course is what don't how intelligence actually works so it's impossible to set a fixed goalpost of when AI is truly achieved. No, the real issue is that people still think, intuitively, that there's a little homunculus in their head making the decisions. Each time we build something that doesn't look like a homunculus, we've failed at attaining "real" intelligence...
- mojuba 11y ago
  Making decisions is not that complicated, neither is it interesting. Your iPhone can make a decision to kill a process that takes too much system resources while in the background. What's more interesting (and what seems to be the main function of the so called homunculus) is being aware of your own location in space and time, as well as remembering previous locations. In other words, having some model of the world and knowing your place in it is what computers haven't achieved yet in any meaningful way.
  - dllthomas 11y ago
    So, map building is now what will truly define AI until it's also just another technology.
    - dkarapetyan 11y ago
      How is map building AI? It's a pretty mechanical process. Start somewhere, make some measurements, move along, repeat. At what point is there any notion of intelligence involved?
      - dllthomas 11y ago
        It's deeper than you describe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_mapping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_... ... but I agree that there's nothing in particular that distinguishes it from other problems. My comment was satirical in nature. SLAM is an interpretation of what the parent comment had described: "[B]eing aware of your own location in space and time, as well as remembering previous locations. In other words, having some model of the world and knowing your place in it[.]". There is a general pattern of statements of the form "We'll only really have AI when computers X", followed by computers being able to X, followed by everyone concluding that X is just a simple matter of engineering like everything else we've already accomplished. As my AI prof put it, ages ago, "AI is the study of things that don't work yet."
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        cwyers 11y ago
        Or it could be, a system capable of reasoning its way to doing X would be intelligent, but you can also teach to the test, so to speak, and build a system that does X without being generalizable and thus satisfy X without being intelligent.
        11y ago
- tim333 11y ago
  > impossible to set a fixed goalpost of when AI is truly achieved We have a kind of fixed goal post in human intelligence. When computers are worse at something than humans like chess it's thought of as intelligence and when they get better it's ticked off as just an algorithm. The AI researches gradually tick off abilities. Chess long ago, image recognition happening now, general reasoning at some point in the future.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  That's basically what I'm saying in the previous sentence.

jacquesm 11y ago

The reason behind that is probably that a large enough collection of interconnected algorithms executing simultaneously may be indistinguishable from intelligence. The questions then becomes 'what is large enough' and 'which algorithms', and this is where we may be off by much more than our most optimistic guesses and that still leaves the possibility of being flat-out wrong about this.

gnaritas 11y ago
> that a large enough collection of interconnected algorithms executing simultaneously may be indistinguishable from intelligence Or is intelligence.

maaku 11y ago

> The real issue of course is what don't how intelligence actually works so it's impossible to set a fixed goalpost of when AI is truly achieved. No, the real issue is that people still think, intuitively, that there's a little homunculus in their head making the decisions. Each time we build something that doesn't look like a homunculus, we've failed at attaining "real" intelligence...

mojuba 11y ago
Making decisions is not that complicated, neither is it interesting. Your iPhone can make a decision to kill a process that takes too much system resources while in the background. What's more interesting (and what seems to be the main function of the so called homunculus) is being aware of your own location in space and time, as well as remembering previous locations. In other words, having some model of the world and knowing your place in it is what computers haven't achieved yet in any meaningful way.
- dllthomas 11y ago
  So, map building is now what will truly define AI until it's also just another technology.
  - dkarapetyan 11y ago
    How is map building AI? It's a pretty mechanical process. Start somewhere, make some measurements, move along, repeat. At what point is there any notion of intelligence involved?
    - dllthomas 11y ago
      It's deeper than you describe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_mapping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_... ... but I agree that there's nothing in particular that distinguishes it from other problems. My comment was satirical in nature. SLAM is an interpretation of what the parent comment had described: "[B]eing aware of your own location in space and time, as well as remembering previous locations. In other words, having some model of the world and knowing your place in it[.]". There is a general pattern of statements of the form "We'll only really have AI when computers X", followed by computers being able to X, followed by everyone concluding that X is just a simple matter of engineering like everything else we've already accomplished. As my AI prof put it, ages ago, "AI is the study of things that don't work yet."
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - cwyers 11y ago
        Or it could be, a system capable of reasoning its way to doing X would be intelligent, but you can also teach to the test, so to speak, and build a system that does X without being generalizable and thus satisfy X without being intelligent.
        11y ago
tim333 11y ago
> impossible to set a fixed goalpost of when AI is truly achieved We have a kind of fixed goal post in human intelligence. When computers are worse at something than humans like chess it's thought of as intelligence and when they get better it's ticked off as just an algorithm. The AI researches gradually tick off abilities. Chess long ago, image recognition happening now, general reasoning at some point in the future.
gnaritas 11y ago
That's basically what I'm saying in the previous sentence.