6 ms·

Privilege, Pathology and Power

20 points by nichodges 11y ago

PaulHoule 11y ago
I think "Citizens United" could be the end of the Republican Party. Part of the reason why Trump has made it so big is that the Republican field is huge. The Republican field is huge because a lot of donors with more money than brains are willing to shell out big money for their campaigns. Trump said that Super PACs are a scam, but I think most of the campaigns are scams. Raise a few million dollars and you can pay all your friends big salaries, then you can turn around and get a favor from them.
- setra 11y ago
  I think that this primary shows are little money has to do with elections. Just look at the correlation of money spent, and percentage in the polls. All the people doing well are spending very little. Many elections are actually like this.
  - zepto 11y ago
    I don't think this is representative of anything. Trump speaks in clickbait and that gets him media attention and hence popularity. You can easily argue that it's an innovative strategy, but he is only able to do it because he inherited his wealth.
    - setra 11y ago
      I am speaking of everyone not just trump. Also trump inherited around $40 million (in assets), then built a brand image worth billions. Good brands can do well.
      - zepto 11y ago
        Sure - he has done a good job so far in brand building, but his brand is predicated on him /already/ being rich - which is not anything he created for himself, rather something he inherited.
    - setra 11y ago
      Also see a similar point: http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-spending-influence-the-election-a-freakonomics-quorum/ http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-sp...
roarkjs 11y ago
Krugman says that greater wealth leads to a lack of empathy. Surely it's a lack of empathy leads to greater wealth?
- zepto 11y ago
  Could be both. But in the case of trump, his wealth was inherited, so the argument goes in the direction Krugman states.
  - setra 11y ago
    which he increased by an order of magnitude.
    - zepto 11y ago
      It was gigantic to begin with, and he has performed about as well as an index fund over his period in business, avoiding bankruptcy only by fluke.
      - setra 11y ago
        He goes from tens of millions is assets to billions. A fluke you say. If that was so easy we would have a lot more billionaires. Investment choices are always obvious after the fact.
        zepto 11y ago
        I said the avoiding of bankruptcy was a fluke. And yes, it is certainly the case that if more people inherited $40 million when Trump did, we'd have many more billionaires today since a conservative investment strategy over the same period would have made them so. https://www.quora.com/Did-Donald-Trump-inherit-a-lot-of-money-and-then-increase-his-net-worth-at-an-unremarkable-rate?share=1 https://www.quora.com/Did-Donald-Trump-inherit-a-lot-of-mone...
jondubois 11y ago
When a rich person makes a joke, everyone laughs and usually the rich person looks pleased with themselves - As though they think that their joke was actually funny. You would think that rich people would actively try to surround themselves with people who don't laugh at their jokes and who aren't afraid to attack their character, but in reality, they don't - After a few years, wealthy people genuinely start to think of themselves as being funny and they feel offended when people don't laugh at their jokes. No wonder they feel increasingly isolated. Those who can't fake well enough get pushed away.
- rrss1122 11y ago
  Why would they surround themselves with such people? They're already wealthy, they have nothing to gain by talking to someone who will attack their character.
  - jondubois 11y ago
    Some of us just want the red pill. Smart/curious people tend to prefer the ugly truth over a beautiful illusion. It's a bit like religion - According to your reasoning, everyone should believe in God - After all; why wouldn't you, who wouldn't want eternal life?
cubano 11y ago
Politics is business. It's always been this way. For most of history, only the wealthy could vote, and all sorts of schemes were used to keep "the poor" from exercising any political power whatsoever, besides pitchforks and the guillotine of course. As long as those whom become elected accept large sums of money from individuals whom expect as least some quid pro quo for their "investment", I just can't see how anyone is surprised that this is the system we get. "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." - Thomas Jefferson This issue has been forever with us.

20 points by nichodges 11y ago

I think "Citizens United" could be the end of the Republican Party. Part of the reason why Trump has made it so big is that the Republican field is huge. The Republican field is huge because a lot of donors with more money than brains are willing to shell out big money for their campaigns. Trump said that Super PACs are a scam, but I think most of the campaigns are scams. Raise a few million dollars and you can pay all your friends big salaries, then you can turn around and get a favor from them.

setra 11y ago
I think that this primary shows are little money has to do with elections. Just look at the correlation of money spent, and percentage in the polls. All the people doing well are spending very little. Many elections are actually like this.
- zepto 11y ago
  I don't think this is representative of anything. Trump speaks in clickbait and that gets him media attention and hence popularity. You can easily argue that it's an innovative strategy, but he is only able to do it because he inherited his wealth.
  - setra 11y ago
    I am speaking of everyone not just trump. Also trump inherited around $40 million (in assets), then built a brand image worth billions. Good brands can do well.
    - zepto 11y ago
      Sure - he has done a good job so far in brand building, but his brand is predicated on him /already/ being rich - which is not anything he created for himself, rather something he inherited.
  - setra 11y ago
    Also see a similar point: http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-spending-influence-the-election-a-freakonomics-quorum/ http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-sp...

roarkjs 11y ago

Krugman says that greater wealth leads to a lack of empathy. Surely it's a lack of empathy leads to greater wealth?

zepto 11y ago
Could be both. But in the case of trump, his wealth was inherited, so the argument goes in the direction Krugman states.
- setra 11y ago
  which he increased by an order of magnitude.
  - zepto 11y ago
    It was gigantic to begin with, and he has performed about as well as an index fund over his period in business, avoiding bankruptcy only by fluke.
    - setra 11y ago
      He goes from tens of millions is assets to billions. A fluke you say. If that was so easy we would have a lot more billionaires. Investment choices are always obvious after the fact.
      - zepto 11y ago
        I said the avoiding of bankruptcy was a fluke. And yes, it is certainly the case that if more people inherited $40 million when Trump did, we'd have many more billionaires today since a conservative investment strategy over the same period would have made them so. https://www.quora.com/Did-Donald-Trump-inherit-a-lot-of-money-and-then-increase-his-net-worth-at-an-unremarkable-rate?share=1 https://www.quora.com/Did-Donald-Trump-inherit-a-lot-of-mone...

jondubois 11y ago

When a rich person makes a joke, everyone laughs and usually the rich person looks pleased with themselves - As though they think that their joke was actually funny. You would think that rich people would actively try to surround themselves with people who don't laugh at their jokes and who aren't afraid to attack their character, but in reality, they don't - After a few years, wealthy people genuinely start to think of themselves as being funny and they feel offended when people don't laugh at their jokes. No wonder they feel increasingly isolated. Those who can't fake well enough get pushed away.

rrss1122 11y ago
Why would they surround themselves with such people? They're already wealthy, they have nothing to gain by talking to someone who will attack their character.
- jondubois 11y ago
  Some of us just want the red pill. Smart/curious people tend to prefer the ugly truth over a beautiful illusion. It's a bit like religion - According to your reasoning, everyone should believe in God - After all; why wouldn't you, who wouldn't want eternal life?

cubano 11y ago

Politics is business. It's always been this way. For most of history, only the wealthy could vote, and all sorts of schemes were used to keep "the poor" from exercising any political power whatsoever, besides pitchforks and the guillotine of course. As long as those whom become elected accept large sums of money from individuals whom expect as least some quid pro quo for their "investment", I just can't see how anyone is surprised that this is the system we get. "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." - Thomas Jefferson This issue has been forever with us.