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Most founders go with no pay for quite some time. You can still be a co-founder and receive pay but being a co-founder conveys far more risk and responsibility
by Ixiaus 11y ago
Most founders go with no pay for quite some time. You can still be a co-founder and receive pay but being a co-founder conveys far more risk and responsibility than being one of the first x employees in the company. Even if you happen to be the person "building pretty much everything", it still does not justify being a co-founder.
If you wish to be a co-founder, you typically have to be willing to take more than 40% pay cut for much longer. You must be willing to defer your paycheck so that your other employees (who are usually on a paycut too) can get paid if funds get tight - this is even expected of most CO employees in the company but the first ones to go are always the founder's. You are usually involved in most fundraising activity in addition to your other duties, whatever they may be* and customer support early on.
The list is quite long, I was once a highly entitled "engineer" until I built a few of my own companies. The dynamics are so much more complicated and tailored to each individual situation that it's disingenuous to lay out blanket statements the way most people in these comment threads have been doing.
Being a founder is brutal.
I'm not saying key engineers aren't entitled to good or fair treatment or that it is impossible to become a co-founder if you're #3 or #4 or #5, but I do not believe you're entitled to founder status just because you're an early hire. Sometimes it can happen that way if you choose to take on those responsibilities and risk and negotiate that dynamic with the other founders - setting up achievement milestones and what-not.
Similarly: Just because you're a founder doesn't mean you're actually entitled to the role of C*O (though you may hold that position early on as it needs to be "filled" it can quickly out-grow you). Some can become those roles and some simply aren't capable of scaling with the needs of the company.
- dmitrygr 11y agoYou're totally right! Without that guy who builds everything your company will do just fine...doing nothing and having nothing to sell.... just wow ... Also, what risk? There has never in history of history been easier access to money than now, and never better terms. Hell, tell a stranger in palo alto you're an MIT dropout, and have a Stanford dropout friend, and they will practically write you a blank check.
- Ixiaus 11y agoYour thinking is clearly very black and white, also highly entitled - quite common with engineers. There is no doubt that a product would not exist without the people to build it but an organization would not exist without the people to organize it. Many roles in the company are invaluable. Not just the engineer. It sounds like you've had a bad experience and I'm sorry if you have, but not all companies are "pointy haired bosses that take advantage of the underlings". > Also, what risk? You clearly have no idea. > There has never in history of history been easier access to money than now, and never better terms. You still have no idea. I'm not even going to try. > Hell, tell a stranger in palo alto you're an MIT dropout, and have a Stanford dropout friend, and they will practically write you a blank check. This is a pretty offensive statement and you've lost me entirely, your perspective is so far detached from reality that it makes a lot of sense why you're so upset, sarcastic, and frustrated. Instead of a self-righteous attitude, go build your own startup if it really is that easy and low risk. If you have built your own startup and received a blank check and performed the feat [of building a startup] with no risk to yourself or your peers then I call bullshit or you're just internet trolling.
- dmitrygr 11y agohttps://medium.com/@tikhon/founders-it-s-not-1990-stop-treating-your-employees-like-it-is-523f48fe90cb#.ws2e25qra https://medium.com/@tikhon/founders-it-s-not-1990-stop-treat...
- ryanSrich 11y ago> but I do not believe you're entitled to founder status just because you're an early hire That's not what I said at all. Early employees that are paid a fair market salary are absolutely not entitled to founder status, and in some cases not even substantial equity.