7 ms·

Please, let's don't do this. Is it an Internet thing? "why hasn't Obama said anything yet?", "why did the Muslims not distance themselves?", "why is there a nat

by netrus 11y ago

Please, let's don't do this. Is it an Internet thing? "why hasn't Obama said anything yet?", "why did the Muslims not distance themselves?", "why is there a national holiday for x but not y". Symbols are cheap, but not very important. Let's not make the absence of symbols into a huge thing. State your grieve, I'll grieve with you, but let's not get angry at other people who don't show their grieve the way you expected it.

patrickaljord 11y ago
Not angry, just disappointed. That's why I didn't demand that HN start showing the symbol.
- jethro_tell 11y ago
  Hopefully, they aren't working today either. With any luck, the people who could put a black banner have a chance to spend a couple days with friends or family to celebrate the new year.
kevindeasis 11y ago
Symbols are a powerful thing and are very important. ie: symbols are a big part of collective identity. Collective identity helps a mission.
- mseepgood 11y ago
  Collective identity? We're all individuals.
  - kevindeasis 11y ago
    From Wikipedia: "Collective identity is the shared sense of belonging to a group." I guess some nights for some people who aren't part of a group can be very lonely.
    - suneilp 11y ago
      I get the point about belonging but your comment reeks of dehumanization. Join us or else.... That kind of attitude creates and/or enforces much of the negativity in this world such as the actions of cops alleged by Ian Murdock.
      - kevindeasis 11y ago
        That statement was about collective identity. Everyone has a collective identity. You are free to choose your own collective identity. Do whatever you want. If you say that you are not part of any collective identity, I'm not sure about that...
        johnchristopher 11y ago
        There should be a Russel point just like there is a Godwin point.
        kevindeasis 11y ago
        It's only right to balance the availability of internet adage. Might as well call it Russell's Law.
        mc808 11y ago
        I try very hard to avoid any collective identity for myself, even to the extent where a lot of people would say "I am a [verb]er," I consciously prefer "I [verb]." The collective identity mindset opens people up to manipulation, guilt by association, and undeserved praise by association (which sounds nice but can lead to poor decisions based on a distorted sense of self). Any benefits are comparatively small. You can still go [verb] with the [verb]ers without merging your identity and worldview with theirs.
- evanpw 11y ago
  The "collective identity" component of this comes from the group of HN readers collectively deciding to upvote this to the top story for an extended period of time. I'm not sure what would be added to that by a single admin making a decision by fiat.
  - kevindeasis 11y ago
    It would add respect, status, etc.
- dave2000 11y ago
  No, you can't just say that without backing it up. The Guardian (good, left-leaning UK paper) can't go more than a few days without a deadline like "We're all [name of someone who just died and who you've never heard of and won't again] now" or whatever. People get forgotten and all that matters is how much people have changed reality whilst alive (or what impact they have after they're dead). Just printing their name or a little slogan or icon or whatever...it literally means nothing, either at the time its printed or afterwards.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
joslin01 11y ago
Symbols are literally everywhere you look. The sentence you just read is nothing but a chain of symbols which got resolved to an overall concept. 2 + 2 = 4 means nothing except to a human. You're right -- symbols are cheap. However, they're the very threads our world is weaved with. Off topic I know, but I always think it's important to keep in my mind.
flurdy 11y ago
A friend respond to the uproar (by some) after the recent Paris attacks that Facebook had not offered temporary logo profile picture for other recent atrocities: "Don't have a go at mourners in a funeral that they didn't go to other funerals."

by netrus 11y ago

patrickaljord 11y ago

Not angry, just disappointed. That's why I didn't demand that HN start showing the symbol.

jethro_tell 11y ago
Hopefully, they aren't working today either. With any luck, the people who could put a black banner have a chance to spend a couple days with friends or family to celebrate the new year.

kevindeasis 11y ago

Symbols are a powerful thing and are very important. ie: symbols are a big part of collective identity. Collective identity helps a mission.

mseepgood 11y ago
Collective identity? We're all individuals.
- kevindeasis 11y ago
  From Wikipedia: "Collective identity is the shared sense of belonging to a group." I guess some nights for some people who aren't part of a group can be very lonely.
  - suneilp 11y ago
    I get the point about belonging but your comment reeks of dehumanization. Join us or else.... That kind of attitude creates and/or enforces much of the negativity in this world such as the actions of cops alleged by Ian Murdock.
    - kevindeasis 11y ago
      That statement was about collective identity. Everyone has a collective identity. You are free to choose your own collective identity. Do whatever you want. If you say that you are not part of any collective identity, I'm not sure about that...
      - johnchristopher 11y ago
        There should be a Russel point just like there is a Godwin point.
        kevindeasis 11y ago
        It's only right to balance the availability of internet adage. Might as well call it Russell's Law.
      - mc808 11y ago
        I try very hard to avoid any collective identity for myself, even to the extent where a lot of people would say "I am a [verb]er," I consciously prefer "I [verb]." The collective identity mindset opens people up to manipulation, guilt by association, and undeserved praise by association (which sounds nice but can lead to poor decisions based on a distorted sense of self). Any benefits are comparatively small. You can still go [verb] with the [verb]ers without merging your identity and worldview with theirs.
evanpw 11y ago
The "collective identity" component of this comes from the group of HN readers collectively deciding to upvote this to the top story for an extended period of time. I'm not sure what would be added to that by a single admin making a decision by fiat.
- kevindeasis 11y ago
  It would add respect, status, etc.
dave2000 11y ago
No, you can't just say that without backing it up. The Guardian (good, left-leaning UK paper) can't go more than a few days without a deadline like "We're all [name of someone who just died and who you've never heard of and won't again] now" or whatever. People get forgotten and all that matters is how much people have changed reality whilst alive (or what impact they have after they're dead). Just printing their name or a little slogan or icon or whatever...it literally means nothing, either at the time its printed or afterwards.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

joslin01 11y ago

Symbols are literally everywhere you look. The sentence you just read is nothing but a chain of symbols which got resolved to an overall concept. 2 + 2 = 4 means nothing except to a human. You're right -- symbols are cheap. However, they're the very threads our world is weaved with. Off topic I know, but I always think it's important to keep in my mind.

flurdy 11y ago

A friend respond to the uproar (by some) after the recent Paris attacks that Facebook had not offered temporary logo profile picture for other recent atrocities: "Don't have a go at mourners in a funeral that they didn't go to other funerals."