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Yes, the reactions on HN in general have been kind of underwhelming compared to Steve Jobs for reasons I can understand although for me Ian's death has hit hard

Yes, the reactions on HN in general have been kind of underwhelming compared to Steve Jobs for reasons I can understand although for me Ian's death has hit harder than Steve's. My guess is that many here are young, mostly devs that have been using Mac all their dev life and before that windows. For the older folks who do dev ops or were around in the 90's and early 2000's and who cared about free software, Debian really had a huge impact on us and so we feel more sad about Ian's death than the rest.

Alupis 11y ago
> Yes, the reactions on HN in general has been kind of underwhelming Just to venture a bit, the lack of overwhelming reactions could be due, in part, to it having most likely been a suicide (and to go a step further, it may have even been drug induced, speculating from the randomness of the twitter feed).
- fao_ 11y ago
  It is my understanding that he was beaten by police officers, and the randomness of the twitter feed was the result of head trauma, or some other injury he had sustained during the attack.
  - Alupis 11y ago
    > It is my understanding that he was beaten by police officers, and the randomness of the twitter feed was the result of head trauma Unfortunately that does not appear to be true. The cause of death is not known at this stage, but it is not believed to be suspicious. A spokesperson for Docker said it was a "private matter." According to the San Francisco police, officers were called to Steiner and Union St in the city at 11.30pm on Saturday, December 26, following reports of a man trying to break into a home – that man was identified as Ian Murdock. He reportedly fought with the cops, and was given a ticket for two counts of assault and one for obstruction of an officer. The techie had been drinking, according to the police logs. A medic arrived to treat an abrasion to Murdock's forehead, and he was released so he could be taken to hospital. A few hours later, on Sunday, December 27 at 2.40am, police were called again to reports of Murdock banging on the door of a neighbor at the very same block. A medic arrived to treat him for any injuries. Officers then took Murdock to the county jail where he was held in a cell. Murdock was bailed later that day, on Sunday, after a bond, said to be $25,000, was paid. He died the next day. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_f... It's clear something may have been wrong prior to any incidents occurring (why was Ian out in the streets alone, very drunk, trying to break into a home?).
    - ekianjo 11y ago
      Let's wait for an independent investigation on what happened, since the police may have been involved.
      - Alupis 11y ago
        > since the police may have been involved. Have we really reached this level of paranoia? There are multiple police reports from each of the calls to him. Conspiricy theorists will just claim the reports have been doctored or whatever, but in reality the police wouldn't of known who it was before responding to the call, and probably still didn't know who it was after responding to the call. What is clear is Ian, very dunk at the time, did resist arrest and assaulted the officers (per the report). Each time he was treated by a medical professional and deemed OK to be released. He didn't go to the hospital like advised, instead seemingly opting to continue drinking and running about in public at 2:40 AM banging on people's front doors. There are many cases of real police brutality - this is not one.
        coldtea 11y ago
        >Have we really reached this level of paranoia? What paranoia? The police pulls shit like that all the time and calls it "assaulting an officer" is you dare say anything back. Including to 12 and 15 year old unarmed kids. While we might have reasons to think otherwise for this particular case, the paranoia is very much guaranteed in the general case.
        umanwizard 11y ago
        The reports don't have to have been "doctored", they can very well have not been true to begin with. Not sure why this would require them to have any idea who Murdock was. This isn't necessarily related to him being the inventor of Debian. Maybe he was just talking back to the cops and they exaggerated it to "resisting arrest" in the report. I mean, the reports may well be true and Murdock may well have been suffering from some mental issues (the Twitter posts seem to bear this out). But it's nuts to think we can just trust the police and that if they say something wasn't police brutality then that's the end of the story.
  - dpark 11y ago
    > It is my understanding that ... the randomness of the twitter feed was the result of head trauma This is not your understanding. This is your conjecture.
    - fao_ 11y ago
      un·der·stand·ing (ŭn′dər-stăn′dĭng) n. 1. a) The ability by which one understands; intelligence: concepts that are beyond the understanding of a child. ... 2. Individual or specified judgment or outlook; opinion: In my understanding, this is a good plan. ... 'Understanding' is correct in this instance, unless you wish to be extremely pedantic.
      - dpark 11y ago
        No, it's not correct. You have insufficient information with which to render an "individual or specified judgement or outlook" on this matter. What you've done is provide your guesswork as if it's based on meaningful information. You have no data supporting your claim that Murdock's head trauma caused his erratic comments on Twitter. I don't believe it's even known whether he had meaningful head trauma. This isn't pedantry. You are basically lying. What you've done is present one of many possible explanations as if it is the correct one, despite having no data to back your claim. This is like claiming that a rogue Chipotle employee intentionally introduced e. coli into their food supply. This is a possible explanation, but it's just wild conjecture. Presenting it as "your understanding" would be to present it as if it were a factual claim.
- jordanb 11y ago
  Because it's (possibly) a suicide we don't honor his death? Will we also prevent him from being buried in the church grounds? We don't want the holy place besmirched by a mortal sin do we? I personally think part of it is political. I don't think HN will display a black banner when Stallman dies, for instance.
  - Alupis 11y ago
    > Because it's (possibly) a suicide we don't honor his death? No, we do honor his death... but you must acknowledge things are a bit different when someone takes their own life vs. due to causes outside their control. Others have pointed to Steve Jobs' memorial on HN. Steve Jobs died of more-or-less natural causes after a great career where he never stopped doing what he did (even in his deathbed he was up to speed on what Apple was doing). Ian took his own life as some sort of retaliation against perceived police brutality in the middle of an alcohol/drug fueled rage.
    - id 11y ago
      If anything, suicide makes it more tragic and sad. And Steve Jobs was simply known to a lot more people - his death was all over the news for weeks. >Ian took his own life as some sort of retaliation against perceived police brutality in the middle of an alcohol/drug fueled rage. We don't know any of this yet. Speculate all you want but don't state it as if it were a fact.
      - xyzzy4 11y ago
        >If anything, suicide makes it more tragic and sad. I disagree. For example if someone takes all their money and lights it on fire, you shouldn't feel bad for them that they just lost their money.
    - ars 11y ago
      If anything I feel it's exactly the opposite. Ian was having a mental breakdown of some sort when he apparently committed suicide, and was not in his right mind. Steve on the other hand was in full control of his facilities when he willfully refused treatment that might have saved, or at least extended his life. When he finally realized his mistake it was too late.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >and to go a step further, it may have even been drug induced, speculating from the randomness of the twitter feed Have you read the twitter feed? Because I don't see any "randomness". At worse it could be an over-reaction to a traumatic incident. No randomness at all though, very specific and focused.
- hyperpape 11y ago
  When you think that people don't care about a death, there are really only two appropriate reactions: 1) Lament how people don't care. 2) Say nothing. Don't speak ill of the dead may not be an unbreakable rule, but your post is a great example of why we have it.
- munchhausen 11y ago
  What the fuck? You just casually throw it out there -- "Oh, drugs may have been involved" -- based on a Twitter feed that's somewhat incoherent after the person just went through a traumatic experience? Please, don't "venture a bit" and "go a bit further" - if you have nothing to say, keep mum.
macintux 11y ago
I worked closely with him at Progeny, and I've long admired Apple and Steve Jobs. Both deaths hit me pretty hard. Ian reminded me a bit of Steve; he had a similar ability to look a few steps ahead, anticipate technology trends, and he was quite charismatic. Orthogonal to the above: I remember when Ian first got an iPod and started downloading music from iTunes. He was astonished at the convenience. "How has no one done this before?" is nearly an exact quote.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- patrickaljord 11y ago
  Read my second sentence, the one that starts with "My guess is that...". That's just a guess though.
p4bl0 11y ago
I don't know. I'm only 26. Still it hit me harder than Jobs' death. I used to own a PowerBook in high school / first uni year. At that time I was already using Debian on my servers. Since then I also use it on my laptops. I chose Debian because it is technically awesome, and also because it is politically awesome. Be it the Debian manifesto, Debian's social contract, Debian Free Software Guidelines, the way the Debian project is organized (e.g., the use of the Schulze/Condorcet method for electing the project leader), etc. All of this is the result of the work of the many people in the project/community that Murdock created with his ideals. I thought that would count for something for everyone, especially among HN folks.
DrNuke 11y ago
The very glue within the majority of HNers' effort here is money. Jobs represented $$$$$, Ian's Debian is free.
- cowsandmilk 11y ago
  lots of money has been made on top of debian.
- andrewmcwatters 11y ago
  The development community still respects FOSS.
  - nyan4 11y ago
    Therefore, HN does not really represent the development community. More like javascript hipsters.
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      Please hang out here for a bit longer and get to know the place before deciding what community does HN represent.
      - vdaniuk 11y ago
        I had been a lurker for ~2 years and a registered user for ~3 years, so about ~5 years in total. I don't believe that HN adequately represents either independent developers, non-corporate FOSS community or web developers ("JS hipsters").
      - andrewmcwatters 11y ago
        My only problem with representation here is that if you have differing opinions than one of the other groups, you get downvoted into oblivion. Hell, saying anything that goes remotely against the tide gets you downvoted. I can understand what he means though, because most people that downvote me are "JS hipsters." Since these people comment the most, they have the ability to control the conversation, and thus leave a larger visible proportion of representation. Everyone has this policing tone, too, and it's obnoxious.
id 11y ago
Steve Jobs is more famous and thus known by more people. I use Apple products on a daily basis and I use Debian only once in a while. Yet I feel more sad about Ian's death. And while many Mac users attribute their OS to Steve Jobs, I bet most Ubuntu users never heard about Ian (or Mark Shuttleworth for that matter).
TeMPOraL 11y ago
Looking at the subthread spawned from this comment, I'm partial to flagging all of it. Some of your responders may end up later regretting the things they said. Seriously, comparing two deaths like this is not a good idea, not when it's so fresh. Both Ian and Steve impacted the computing world in a huge, if different way, and both deaths are tragic. We've honored Steve Jobs then, this is the hour of honoring Ian Murdock. Black bar be damned. We can sort out who did more for the world later.

Alupis 11y ago

> Yes, the reactions on HN in general has been kind of underwhelming Just to venture a bit, the lack of overwhelming reactions could be due, in part, to it having most likely been a suicide (and to go a step further, it may have even been drug induced, speculating from the randomness of the twitter feed).

fao_ 11y ago
It is my understanding that he was beaten by police officers, and the randomness of the twitter feed was the result of head trauma, or some other injury he had sustained during the attack.
- Alupis 11y ago
  > It is my understanding that he was beaten by police officers, and the randomness of the twitter feed was the result of head trauma Unfortunately that does not appear to be true. The cause of death is not known at this stage, but it is not believed to be suspicious. A spokesperson for Docker said it was a "private matter." According to the San Francisco police, officers were called to Steiner and Union St in the city at 11.30pm on Saturday, December 26, following reports of a man trying to break into a home – that man was identified as Ian Murdock. He reportedly fought with the cops, and was given a ticket for two counts of assault and one for obstruction of an officer. The techie had been drinking, according to the police logs. A medic arrived to treat an abrasion to Murdock's forehead, and he was released so he could be taken to hospital. A few hours later, on Sunday, December 27 at 2.40am, police were called again to reports of Murdock banging on the door of a neighbor at the very same block. A medic arrived to treat him for any injuries. Officers then took Murdock to the county jail where he was held in a cell. Murdock was bailed later that day, on Sunday, after a bond, said to be $25,000, was paid. He died the next day. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_f... It's clear something may have been wrong prior to any incidents occurring (why was Ian out in the streets alone, very drunk, trying to break into a home?).
  - ekianjo 11y ago
    Let's wait for an independent investigation on what happened, since the police may have been involved.
    - Alupis 11y ago
      > since the police may have been involved. Have we really reached this level of paranoia? There are multiple police reports from each of the calls to him. Conspiricy theorists will just claim the reports have been doctored or whatever, but in reality the police wouldn't of known who it was before responding to the call, and probably still didn't know who it was after responding to the call. What is clear is Ian, very dunk at the time, did resist arrest and assaulted the officers (per the report). Each time he was treated by a medical professional and deemed OK to be released. He didn't go to the hospital like advised, instead seemingly opting to continue drinking and running about in public at 2:40 AM banging on people's front doors. There are many cases of real police brutality - this is not one.
      - coldtea 11y ago
        >Have we really reached this level of paranoia? What paranoia? The police pulls shit like that all the time and calls it "assaulting an officer" is you dare say anything back. Including to 12 and 15 year old unarmed kids. While we might have reasons to think otherwise for this particular case, the paranoia is very much guaranteed in the general case.
      - umanwizard 11y ago
        The reports don't have to have been "doctored", they can very well have not been true to begin with. Not sure why this would require them to have any idea who Murdock was. This isn't necessarily related to him being the inventor of Debian. Maybe he was just talking back to the cops and they exaggerated it to "resisting arrest" in the report. I mean, the reports may well be true and Murdock may well have been suffering from some mental issues (the Twitter posts seem to bear this out). But it's nuts to think we can just trust the police and that if they say something wasn't police brutality then that's the end of the story.
- dpark 11y ago
  > It is my understanding that ... the randomness of the twitter feed was the result of head trauma This is not your understanding. This is your conjecture.
  - fao_ 11y ago
    un·der·stand·ing (ŭn′dər-stăn′dĭng) n. 1. a) The ability by which one understands; intelligence: concepts that are beyond the understanding of a child. ... 2. Individual or specified judgment or outlook; opinion: In my understanding, this is a good plan. ... 'Understanding' is correct in this instance, unless you wish to be extremely pedantic.
    - dpark 11y ago
      No, it's not correct. You have insufficient information with which to render an "individual or specified judgement or outlook" on this matter. What you've done is provide your guesswork as if it's based on meaningful information. You have no data supporting your claim that Murdock's head trauma caused his erratic comments on Twitter. I don't believe it's even known whether he had meaningful head trauma. This isn't pedantry. You are basically lying. What you've done is present one of many possible explanations as if it is the correct one, despite having no data to back your claim. This is like claiming that a rogue Chipotle employee intentionally introduced e. coli into their food supply. This is a possible explanation, but it's just wild conjecture. Presenting it as "your understanding" would be to present it as if it were a factual claim.
jordanb 11y ago
Because it's (possibly) a suicide we don't honor his death? Will we also prevent him from being buried in the church grounds? We don't want the holy place besmirched by a mortal sin do we? I personally think part of it is political. I don't think HN will display a black banner when Stallman dies, for instance.
- Alupis 11y ago
  > Because it's (possibly) a suicide we don't honor his death? No, we do honor his death... but you must acknowledge things are a bit different when someone takes their own life vs. due to causes outside their control. Others have pointed to Steve Jobs' memorial on HN. Steve Jobs died of more-or-less natural causes after a great career where he never stopped doing what he did (even in his deathbed he was up to speed on what Apple was doing). Ian took his own life as some sort of retaliation against perceived police brutality in the middle of an alcohol/drug fueled rage.
  - id 11y ago
    If anything, suicide makes it more tragic and sad. And Steve Jobs was simply known to a lot more people - his death was all over the news for weeks. >Ian took his own life as some sort of retaliation against perceived police brutality in the middle of an alcohol/drug fueled rage. We don't know any of this yet. Speculate all you want but don't state it as if it were a fact.
    - xyzzy4 11y ago
      >If anything, suicide makes it more tragic and sad. I disagree. For example if someone takes all their money and lights it on fire, you shouldn't feel bad for them that they just lost their money.
  - ars 11y ago
    If anything I feel it's exactly the opposite. Ian was having a mental breakdown of some sort when he apparently committed suicide, and was not in his right mind. Steve on the other hand was in full control of his facilities when he willfully refused treatment that might have saved, or at least extended his life. When he finally realized his mistake it was too late.
coldtea 11y ago
>and to go a step further, it may have even been drug induced, speculating from the randomness of the twitter feed Have you read the twitter feed? Because I don't see any "randomness". At worse it could be an over-reaction to a traumatic incident. No randomness at all though, very specific and focused.
hyperpape 11y ago
When you think that people don't care about a death, there are really only two appropriate reactions: 1) Lament how people don't care. 2) Say nothing. Don't speak ill of the dead may not be an unbreakable rule, but your post is a great example of why we have it.
munchhausen 11y ago
What the fuck? You just casually throw it out there -- "Oh, drugs may have been involved" -- based on a Twitter feed that's somewhat incoherent after the person just went through a traumatic experience? Please, don't "venture a bit" and "go a bit further" - if you have nothing to say, keep mum.

macintux 11y ago

I worked closely with him at Progeny, and I've long admired Apple and Steve Jobs. Both deaths hit me pretty hard. Ian reminded me a bit of Steve; he had a similar ability to look a few steps ahead, anticipate technology trends, and he was quite charismatic. Orthogonal to the above: I remember when Ian first got an iPod and started downloading music from iTunes. He was astonished at the convenience. "How has no one done this before?" is nearly an exact quote.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

patrickaljord 11y ago
Read my second sentence, the one that starts with "My guess is that...". That's just a guess though.

p4bl0 11y ago

I don't know. I'm only 26. Still it hit me harder than Jobs' death. I used to own a PowerBook in high school / first uni year. At that time I was already using Debian on my servers. Since then I also use it on my laptops. I chose Debian because it is technically awesome, and also because it is politically awesome. Be it the Debian manifesto, Debian's social contract, Debian Free Software Guidelines, the way the Debian project is organized (e.g., the use of the Schulze/Condorcet method for electing the project leader), etc. All of this is the result of the work of the many people in the project/community that Murdock created with his ideals. I thought that would count for something for everyone, especially among HN folks.

DrNuke 11y ago

The very glue within the majority of HNers' effort here is money. Jobs represented $$$$$, Ian's Debian is free.

cowsandmilk 11y ago
lots of money has been made on top of debian.
andrewmcwatters 11y ago
The development community still respects FOSS.
- nyan4 11y ago
  Therefore, HN does not really represent the development community. More like javascript hipsters.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Please hang out here for a bit longer and get to know the place before deciding what community does HN represent.
    - vdaniuk 11y ago
      I had been a lurker for ~2 years and a registered user for ~3 years, so about ~5 years in total. I don't believe that HN adequately represents either independent developers, non-corporate FOSS community or web developers ("JS hipsters").
    - andrewmcwatters 11y ago
      My only problem with representation here is that if you have differing opinions than one of the other groups, you get downvoted into oblivion. Hell, saying anything that goes remotely against the tide gets you downvoted. I can understand what he means though, because most people that downvote me are "JS hipsters." Since these people comment the most, they have the ability to control the conversation, and thus leave a larger visible proportion of representation. Everyone has this policing tone, too, and it's obnoxious.

id 11y ago

Steve Jobs is more famous and thus known by more people. I use Apple products on a daily basis and I use Debian only once in a while. Yet I feel more sad about Ian's death. And while many Mac users attribute their OS to Steve Jobs, I bet most Ubuntu users never heard about Ian (or Mark Shuttleworth for that matter).

TeMPOraL 11y ago

Looking at the subthread spawned from this comment, I'm partial to flagging all of it. Some of your responders may end up later regretting the things they said. Seriously, comparing two deaths like this is not a good idea, not when it's so fresh. Both Ian and Steve impacted the computing world in a huge, if different way, and both deaths are tragic. We've honored Steve Jobs then, this is the hour of honoring Ian Murdock. Black bar be damned. We can sort out who did more for the world later.