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I think Greenwald misses Hoekstra's point entirely. Consider an analogous situation. Republicans are up in arms because [they believe] right-wing groups were

by JackFr 11y ago

I think Greenwald misses Hoekstra's point entirely. Consider an analogous situation. Republicans are up in arms because [they believe] right-wing groups were targeted by the IRS for political purposes. No one is proposing that the IRS be dismantled, or that its purpose is illegitimate, but rather its improper use as a political tool of the executive branch is wrong and possibly criminal. Similarly, I'm sure Hoekstra has not changed his tune a bit regarding NSA surveillance in general. The scandal is using the intelligence apparatus as a political tool.

danielahn 11y ago
Who better to surveil than those who may have access to state secrets, and are actively talking with representatives of other countries? Members of Congress should be at the top of the list for NSA surveillance.
- XorNot 11y ago
  Perhaps more important to note: are, and its not a secret. Members of government in general have very little expectation of privacy when it comes to their communications, to the point that it's a significant issue with Hillary Clinton's private email server that the mail is unrecoverable in some cases for auditing purposes.
  - JackFr 11y ago
    The rights and obligations of a member of congress and the rights and obligations of a cabinet secretary appointed at the pleasure of the President are fundamentally different. They are not just 'members of government'.
hobs 11y ago
I don't think Greenwald misses that point, he (like anyone who understands the scope of spying at play) clearly understands the implications of massive spying and how that could play into blackmailing our other branches of government. The point of the article is pointing and laughing at people who cant make the logical leap of, "if they do it to someone else, they might do it to me.", the political uses are just the MOST obvious thing to do in this scenario.
wpietri 11y ago
Your analogy doesn't work very well in that among others, Ted Cruz, senator and presidential candidate, has explicitly called for abolishing the IRS [1], and many on the right believe the the IRS's purpose is basically illegitimate. I also think the US right is currently so hyperbolic and so inclined to politicize anything that it's hard to say with any confidence that "the scandal is using the intelligence apparatus as a political tool". Many things that would previously been framed as political disagreements are now framed around the president's total illegitimacy. Of the leading US Republican presidential candidates, majorities of their supporters believe that Obama is a Muslim who was not born in the US. [2] [1] http://www.dailydot.com/politics/ted-cruz-abolish-irs-fair-tax-2016/ http://www.dailydot.com/politics/ted-cruz-abolish-irs-fair-t... [2] http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/08/trump-supporters-think-obama-is-a-muslim-born-in-another-country.html http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/08/trump-suppor...
beachstartup 11y ago
> No one is proposing that the IRS be dismantled lots of people propose this every year, including viable presidential candidates. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dismantle%7Cabolish+irs https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...

by JackFr 11y ago

danielahn 11y ago

Who better to surveil than those who may have access to state secrets, and are actively talking with representatives of other countries? Members of Congress should be at the top of the list for NSA surveillance.

XorNot 11y ago
Perhaps more important to note: are, and its not a secret. Members of government in general have very little expectation of privacy when it comes to their communications, to the point that it's a significant issue with Hillary Clinton's private email server that the mail is unrecoverable in some cases for auditing purposes.
- JackFr 11y ago
  The rights and obligations of a member of congress and the rights and obligations of a cabinet secretary appointed at the pleasure of the President are fundamentally different. They are not just 'members of government'.

hobs 11y ago

I don't think Greenwald misses that point, he (like anyone who understands the scope of spying at play) clearly understands the implications of massive spying and how that could play into blackmailing our other branches of government. The point of the article is pointing and laughing at people who cant make the logical leap of, "if they do it to someone else, they might do it to me.", the political uses are just the MOST obvious thing to do in this scenario.

wpietri 11y ago

Your analogy doesn't work very well in that among others, Ted Cruz, senator and presidential candidate, has explicitly called for abolishing the IRS [1], and many on the right believe the the IRS's purpose is basically illegitimate. I also think the US right is currently so hyperbolic and so inclined to politicize anything that it's hard to say with any confidence that "the scandal is using the intelligence apparatus as a political tool". Many things that would previously been framed as political disagreements are now framed around the president's total illegitimacy. Of the leading US Republican presidential candidates, majorities of their supporters believe that Obama is a Muslim who was not born in the US. [2] [1] http://www.dailydot.com/politics/ted-cruz-abolish-irs-fair-tax-2016/ http://www.dailydot.com/politics/ted-cruz-abolish-irs-fair-t... [2] http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/08/trump-supporters-think-obama-is-a-muslim-born-in-another-country.html http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/08/trump-suppor...

beachstartup 11y ago

> No one is proposing that the IRS be dismantled lots of people propose this every year, including viable presidential candidates. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dismantle%7Cabolish+irs https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...