5 ms·

I've never seen the ability to customize these kind of things because they generally are, in my experience, part of the core options agreement for the entire co

I've never seen the ability to customize these kind of things because they generally are, in my experience, part of the core options agreement for the entire company and would require BoD approval. Thus, you're asking a lot - works if your a key employee but probably not for the average employee. Would love to hear if people have been able to get these terms.

jonathanwallace 11y ago
If everyone asks for such things, then boards will get the message and make this standard to compete.
- relkor 11y ago
  Or you know, the board might not be a dick. Some of us founders are less outright hostile to employees and we are definitely on the board (usually with majority when the first 20-50 employees are coming on).
  - jonathanwallace 11y ago
    +1 The approach you imply is the approach I've taken. Work with founders that I trust, verify the details of the deal to the best of my ability and assume that good people do the right thing for other good people.
mpdehaan2 11y ago
Righto, and asking a lot of demands/questions means the company is not going to like you as much and will influence your relationship after the offer is accepted. The info you get will be standard and there is certain info they are not going to want to share. Basically a casual ask for "can you share how many options are outstanding?" is about as good as you are going to get. Totally good. Non-stand demands? Not so good. If the VC has preferential shares (they do) just realize that's ok - and probably fair. Don't join the company if you don't think it can exit above it's funding amounts if you are in for the stock - but hopefully you're in it because you really will love the position and the stock is just a bonus if it makes it. That's the most important thing :) You don't want to be in a job you don't like just because it's profitable IMHO.
- pc86 11y ago
  There is absolutely no reason not to disclose the number of outstanding shares. Failure to do so means the denominator in the equation can be anything. One or one billion. At that point you have to value the entire option nonsense at $0 total, or even negative given the tax implications. It takes all the truth out of the statement "our cash compensation is below market because of our generous option grants." If I can't figure out the monetary value of the options at the given strike price, I have no way of knowing if they're generous or not.
  - mpdehaan2 11y ago
    Reasons exist.... One reason is likely that they want to keep the valuation confidential outside of the company (people talk), because as a private company that information doesn't have to be public. It's not a great reason for the employees - but it's there, nonetheless. It's tricky to share that with employees and not have it get out. That being said, if it were all public, I think that would be fine, I'm not sure what results that would cause if every company did that, and it might be cool if every company were required to by law (hint, hint, congress!).
    - s73v3r 11y ago
      "Reasons exist" And absolutely none of them are valid. If you're going to have this person work on the core of your company, there is absolutely no reason to not be up front with them.
      - mpdehaan2 11y ago
        It's quite valid and exists as a reason, you just don't agree with it :)
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        s73v3r 11y ago
gohrt 11y ago
Right. A CTO could negotiate these terms. Everyone else should value their options properly at 0

jonathanwallace 11y ago

If everyone asks for such things, then boards will get the message and make this standard to compete.

relkor 11y ago
Or you know, the board might not be a dick. Some of us founders are less outright hostile to employees and we are definitely on the board (usually with majority when the first 20-50 employees are coming on).
- jonathanwallace 11y ago
  +1 The approach you imply is the approach I've taken. Work with founders that I trust, verify the details of the deal to the best of my ability and assume that good people do the right thing for other good people.

mpdehaan2 11y ago

Righto, and asking a lot of demands/questions means the company is not going to like you as much and will influence your relationship after the offer is accepted. The info you get will be standard and there is certain info they are not going to want to share. Basically a casual ask for "can you share how many options are outstanding?" is about as good as you are going to get. Totally good. Non-stand demands? Not so good. If the VC has preferential shares (they do) just realize that's ok - and probably fair. Don't join the company if you don't think it can exit above it's funding amounts if you are in for the stock - but hopefully you're in it because you really will love the position and the stock is just a bonus if it makes it. That's the most important thing :) You don't want to be in a job you don't like just because it's profitable IMHO.

pc86 11y ago
There is absolutely no reason not to disclose the number of outstanding shares. Failure to do so means the denominator in the equation can be anything. One or one billion. At that point you have to value the entire option nonsense at $0 total, or even negative given the tax implications. It takes all the truth out of the statement "our cash compensation is below market because of our generous option grants." If I can't figure out the monetary value of the options at the given strike price, I have no way of knowing if they're generous or not.
- mpdehaan2 11y ago
  Reasons exist.... One reason is likely that they want to keep the valuation confidential outside of the company (people talk), because as a private company that information doesn't have to be public. It's not a great reason for the employees - but it's there, nonetheless. It's tricky to share that with employees and not have it get out. That being said, if it were all public, I think that would be fine, I'm not sure what results that would cause if every company did that, and it might be cool if every company were required to by law (hint, hint, congress!).
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    "Reasons exist" And absolutely none of them are valid. If you're going to have this person work on the core of your company, there is absolutely no reason to not be up front with them.
    - mpdehaan2 11y ago
      It's quite valid and exists as a reason, you just don't agree with it :)
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - s73v3r 11y ago

gohrt 11y ago

Right. A CTO could negotiate these terms. Everyone else should value their options properly at 0