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The only people who seem to get excited about an England as distinct from the UK tend to be: Scottish, Irish, poor white racists (or all of the above). I think

The only people who seem to get excited about an England as distinct from the UK tend to be: Scottish, Irish, poor white racists (or all of the above). I think that might be part of the problem :) English national identity is a complex thing. It's hard to argue that there is one distinctly; it's almost entirely the same thing as the British national identity. But then, Scotland has an obviously distinct national identity – the extent to which they share that of Britain is not completely clear to me. Scotland in particular was obviously a great influence on the British Empire – no doubt due in part to large numbers of well-educated men, in contrast to the rather more manual labour provided by the population of England. So I suppose what you say certainly makes sense in a historical context. But the picture today is far more nuanced.

sgt101 11y ago
As a child I wrote "English" as my nationality on a form at school and I was told to redo it as there was no such nation - I was British. It was quite confusing as we cheered for the English cricket team, English football team and English Rugby Union team, although strangely Great Britain Rugby League in those days. But, soaked in privilege as I was it didn't bother me that much, but it is a problem. An English national identity would necessarily destroy the United Kingdom, but if the United Kingdom is destroyed anyway then an English national identity will become a fact. What would / should that identity be ? At the moment mad right wing groups and a confection of The Guardian / The BBC (amusingly) && The NHS seem to be the front running candidates. It's clear what anyone sane would prefer (hint : not the mad racists driving us down a path to blood and fire) but I do not think that The Guardian/BBC/NHS mashup is likely to provide a robust enough program to see through a decade in the modern world. Things like that can come unzipped quick. Maybe a pseudo Thatcherite semi authoritarian ship steered by the centre right? I have doubts... My point is that there is limited debate and discussion, just a lot of rather wishful thinking, and this may leave a vacuum which will get filled by something rather unpleasant and rather difficult to dislodge. I hope I am wrong and TG/BBC/NHS does become the national identity, while this kind of thing can come apart rapidly they can also prove surprisingly resilient - Catholicism is a rather similar set of institutions abet with a radically different world view, but I worry. Cup of tea time.

sgt101 11y ago

As a child I wrote "English" as my nationality on a form at school and I was told to redo it as there was no such nation - I was British. It was quite confusing as we cheered for the English cricket team, English football team and English Rugby Union team, although strangely Great Britain Rugby League in those days. But, soaked in privilege as I was it didn't bother me that much, but it is a problem. An English national identity would necessarily destroy the United Kingdom, but if the United Kingdom is destroyed anyway then an English national identity will become a fact. What would / should that identity be ? At the moment mad right wing groups and a confection of The Guardian / The BBC (amusingly) && The NHS seem to be the front running candidates. It's clear what anyone sane would prefer (hint : not the mad racists driving us down a path to blood and fire) but I do not think that The Guardian/BBC/NHS mashup is likely to provide a robust enough program to see through a decade in the modern world. Things like that can come unzipped quick. Maybe a pseudo Thatcherite semi authoritarian ship steered by the centre right? I have doubts... My point is that there is limited debate and discussion, just a lot of rather wishful thinking, and this may leave a vacuum which will get filled by something rather unpleasant and rather difficult to dislodge. I hope I am wrong and TG/BBC/NHS does become the national identity, while this kind of thing can come apart rapidly they can also prove surprisingly resilient - Catholicism is a rather similar set of institutions abet with a radically different world view, but I worry. Cup of tea time.