4 ms·

> That's just Google PR talking. Let me make this short and hopefully clear: Google copied part of an Oracle/OSS API and broke compatibility in order to make a

> That's just Google PR talking. Let me make this short and hopefully clear: Google copied part of an Oracle/OSS API and broke compatibility in order to make a profit. They didn't try to build an interoperable alternative to Sun's Java, but to get into a ready-made market of Java tools and developers. What's wrong with copying part of an API? You yourself admitting that I can do whatever I want with OpenJDK, including copying only part of it. I can then use this copy to make a product that turns a profit. If Oracle will sue me to this practice, then Google, not Oracle, is on the right side here.

pron 11y ago
> What's wrong with copying part of an API? You yourself admitting that I can do whatever I want with OpenJDK, including copying only part of it. I can then use this copy to make a product that turns a profit. Absolutely, as long as you comply with the open source license, which is plain GPL in this case (just like Linux). Google didn't -- until today -- as they released Android under the Apache license rather than the GPL license. They always had the option of going GPL -- in which case Oracle would have not come after them -- but they didn't want to[1]. > If Oracle will sue me to this practice, then Google, not Oracle, is on the right side here. Google did not comply with the license (either license, actually). Their legal claim was that they don't need to comply with any license, because if APIs aren't copyrighted, then they're not Oracle's to give (i.e. to license). That legal claim, too, is perfectly reasonable (as is its opposite), but it seems clear to me that it was Google who was at least ethically, if not legally, wrong in this case. In any event, Java is also licensed with a standard open-source license (through OpenJDK), that you can use -- wholly or partially -- for any purpose whatsoever; Oracle has never sued anyone for using its code or APIs in this way for whatever purpose. --- [1]: Which is why people in the free software community, even though they believed copyright shouldn't apply to APIs, were pissed off at Google for going to great lengths (and basically asking for this lawsuit) all in order to avoid the GPL option, which has been open to them all along. For example, here is what the FSF had to say in 2010 on the matter (they were against Oracle's lawsuit because one of Oracle's tactics was to claim software patent infringement, which the FSF is against, as am I): "Oracle's lawsuit threatens to undo all the good will that has been built up in the years since... Unfortunately, Google didn't seem particularly concerned about this problem until after the suit was filed. The company still has not taken any clear position or action against software patents. And they could have avoided all this by building Android on top of IcedTea [an early OpenJDK distribution], a GPL-covered Java implementation based on Sun's original code, instead of an independent implementation under the Apache License... It's sad to see that Google apparently shunned those protections in order to make proprietary software development easier on Android." (emphasis mine. Source: https://www.fsf.org/news/oracle-v-google https://www.fsf.org/news/oracle-v-google) I will add that while Oracle has treated some of its acquired open-source projects abominably -- e.g. OpenSolaris :( -- it has been very good to OpenJDK (more than Sun), so much so that virtually all development on the runtime at Oracle is done on OpenJDK these days. Also, Oracle still maintains more open source software than Google (and possibly any other company save for RedHat), but I'm not too hopeful about its future treatment. However, OpenJDK is now way too big for Oracle to ruin even if they tried.

pron 11y ago

> What's wrong with copying part of an API? You yourself admitting that I can do whatever I want with OpenJDK, including copying only part of it. I can then use this copy to make a product that turns a profit. Absolutely, as long as you comply with the open source license, which is plain GPL in this case (just like Linux). Google didn't -- until today -- as they released Android under the Apache license rather than the GPL license. They always had the option of going GPL -- in which case Oracle would have not come after them -- but they didn't want to[1]. > If Oracle will sue me to this practice, then Google, not Oracle, is on the right side here. Google did not comply with the license (either license, actually). Their legal claim was that they don't need to comply with any license, because if APIs aren't copyrighted, then they're not Oracle's to give (i.e. to license). That legal claim, too, is perfectly reasonable (as is its opposite), but it seems clear to me that it was Google who was at least ethically, if not legally, wrong in this case. In any event, Java is also licensed with a standard open-source license (through OpenJDK), that you can use -- wholly or partially -- for any purpose whatsoever; Oracle has never sued anyone for using its code or APIs in this way for whatever purpose. --- [1]: Which is why people in the free software community, even though they believed copyright shouldn't apply to APIs, were pissed off at Google for going to great lengths (and basically asking for this lawsuit) all in order to avoid the GPL option, which has been open to them all along. For example, here is what the FSF had to say in 2010 on the matter (they were against Oracle's lawsuit because one of Oracle's tactics was to claim software patent infringement, which the FSF is against, as am I): "Oracle's lawsuit threatens to undo all the good will that has been built up in the years since... Unfortunately, Google didn't seem particularly concerned about this problem until after the suit was filed. The company still has not taken any clear position or action against software patents. And they could have avoided all this by building Android on top of IcedTea [an early OpenJDK distribution], a GPL-covered Java implementation based on Sun's original code, instead of an independent implementation under the Apache License... It's sad to see that Google apparently shunned those protections in order to make proprietary software development easier on Android." (emphasis mine. Source: https://www.fsf.org/news/oracle-v-google https://www.fsf.org/news/oracle-v-google) I will add that while Oracle has treated some of its acquired open-source projects abominably -- e.g. OpenSolaris :( -- it has been very good to OpenJDK (more than Sun), so much so that virtually all development on the runtime at Oracle is done on OpenJDK these days. Also, Oracle still maintains more open source software than Google (and possibly any other company save for RedHat), but I'm not too hopeful about its future treatment. However, OpenJDK is now way too big for Oracle to ruin even if they tried.