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So what you're saying is that No True Scotsman would ever be prime minister of the UK? Got it.

arethuza 11y ago
I think JetSetWilly is suggesting that it is even less likely that a Scot will become PM any time in next couple of decades than it was before. Which seems reasonable. Edit: The self destruction of Labour in Scotland has pretty much guaranteed this.
jacquesm 11y ago
This thread should be linked from the Wikipedia page as a prime example of the No True Scotsman fallacy.
- JetSetWilly 11y ago
  The "No True Scotsman" fallacy doesn't mean that you get to call anybody you want Scottish and get away with it: "Actually, Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't Scottish" - "HA! No True Scotsman!" I'm sure you can see the problem with using this "fallacy" to claim that anybody is Scottish even if they don't self-identify as Scottish?
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    I think you're taking my comment in a much too serious fashion.
    - lawpoop 11y ago
      Didn't come off as a joke to me. But now that I understand what you mean, it is kind of funny.
  - peteretep 11y ago
    "Well he may have been born and brought up in Scotland to a Scottish parent ... but he's not a real Scotsman as he doesn't have the same accent as me"
    - JetSetWilly 11y ago
      You seem to be good at inventing straw men. I never said that. Your position appears to be "they may identify as English, say they are English, and sound English, but because it suits my agenda of suggesting that the UK government is run by pernicious Scots, they are actually Scottish" - which is ridiculous.
caf 11y ago
You are misapplying the fallacy - it does not imply that there is no distinction between Scots and non-Scots. The fact that Blair and Cameron do not identify as Scottish is sufficient reason to say that they aren't Scottish, and does not invoke the fallacy.
- mc32 11y ago
  I don't think that's sufficient reason. It's possible in the future one or more self identifies as Scottish. Alternatively, let's say Cecil Rhodes had said, I'm not English, I'm South African, would that have made him South African and not English?

I think JetSetWilly is suggesting that it is even less likely that a Scot will become PM any time in next couple of decades than it was before. Which seems reasonable. Edit: The self destruction of Labour in Scotland has pretty much guaranteed this.

jacquesm 11y ago

This thread should be linked from the Wikipedia page as a prime example of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

JetSetWilly 11y ago
The "No True Scotsman" fallacy doesn't mean that you get to call anybody you want Scottish and get away with it: "Actually, Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't Scottish" - "HA! No True Scotsman!" I'm sure you can see the problem with using this "fallacy" to claim that anybody is Scottish even if they don't self-identify as Scottish?
- jacquesm 11y ago
  I think you're taking my comment in a much too serious fashion.
  - lawpoop 11y ago
    Didn't come off as a joke to me. But now that I understand what you mean, it is kind of funny.
- peteretep 11y ago
  "Well he may have been born and brought up in Scotland to a Scottish parent ... but he's not a real Scotsman as he doesn't have the same accent as me"
  - JetSetWilly 11y ago
    You seem to be good at inventing straw men. I never said that. Your position appears to be "they may identify as English, say they are English, and sound English, but because it suits my agenda of suggesting that the UK government is run by pernicious Scots, they are actually Scottish" - which is ridiculous.

caf 11y ago

You are misapplying the fallacy - it does not imply that there is no distinction between Scots and non-Scots. The fact that Blair and Cameron do not identify as Scottish is sufficient reason to say that they aren't Scottish, and does not invoke the fallacy.

mc32 11y ago
I don't think that's sufficient reason. It's possible in the future one or more self identifies as Scottish. Alternatively, let's say Cecil Rhodes had said, I'm not English, I'm South African, would that have made him South African and not English?