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> That's how they ended up with $200bn offshore and only $10bn or so in the US. Wrong. They initiated a capital return program a few years ago and ran down the

by HSO 11y ago

> That's how they ended up with $200bn offshore and only $10bn or so in the US. Wrong. They initiated a capital return program a few years ago and ran down their US cash holdings while taking on debt "against" part of their overseas holdings. Once you account for the debt issues, their net cash holdings are a lot lower (though still substantial). Please don't make wild accusations if you don't know what you are talking about.

gozur88 11y ago
It's not wrong. http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/07/22/as-apples-offshore-cash-pile-reaches-190b-us-congress-moves-closer-to-multinational-tax-reform http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/07/22/as-apples-offshore... They still can't repatriate that money without paying taxes. And as of two quarters ago they still have $200bn offshore and $10bn in the US. That offshore tax horde is still growing and it's still growing as a result of Double Irish flim-flam. Don't accuse other people of not knowing what they're talking about unless you know what you're talking about.
- HSO 11y ago
  For the record, I said your assertion that Apple's cash position was due to Double Irish tax maneuvers on US income is wrong, and that net cash (once you account for debt issued to pay dividends) is significantly lower, both in absolute terms and in the disparity between overseas and onshore holdings. Before the initiation of the 140bn capital return program, relative balances were less skewed and more reflective of where profits were generated. I won't respond to you again in this thread because I can't deal with people who lack basic reading comprehension, logic, and fact-checking skills.
  - gozur88 11y ago
    You have a talent for seeing the trees and missing the forest. Apple isn't changing anything by borrowing against its foreign cash horde. That just gives it access to the money without having to pay taxes.
    - zepto 11y ago
      No. They are still liable for taxes on the cash horde. It is simply deferred.
      - gozur88 11y ago
        That was the point.
        zepto 11y ago
        Well you misstated it then. You said they 'without having to pay taxes'. This is false. They do have to pay the taxes. And the cash hoard might technically be 'growing' but there is a corresponding liability that is growing too - so it's no longer Apple's money to do what they want with - it's owed to creditors. So the 'film-flam' as you call it avoids no taxes with regard to the cash-horde.

by HSO 11y ago

gozur88 11y ago

It's not wrong. http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/07/22/as-apples-offshore-cash-pile-reaches-190b-us-congress-moves-closer-to-multinational-tax-reform http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/07/22/as-apples-offshore... They still can't repatriate that money without paying taxes. And as of two quarters ago they still have $200bn offshore and $10bn in the US. That offshore tax horde is still growing and it's still growing as a result of Double Irish flim-flam. Don't accuse other people of not knowing what they're talking about unless you know what you're talking about.

HSO 11y ago
For the record, I said your assertion that Apple's cash position was due to Double Irish tax maneuvers on US income is wrong, and that net cash (once you account for debt issued to pay dividends) is significantly lower, both in absolute terms and in the disparity between overseas and onshore holdings. Before the initiation of the 140bn capital return program, relative balances were less skewed and more reflective of where profits were generated. I won't respond to you again in this thread because I can't deal with people who lack basic reading comprehension, logic, and fact-checking skills.
- gozur88 11y ago
  You have a talent for seeing the trees and missing the forest. Apple isn't changing anything by borrowing against its foreign cash horde. That just gives it access to the money without having to pay taxes.
  - zepto 11y ago
    No. They are still liable for taxes on the cash horde. It is simply deferred.
    - gozur88 11y ago
      That was the point.
      - zepto 11y ago
        Well you misstated it then. You said they 'without having to pay taxes'. This is false. They do have to pay the taxes. And the cash hoard might technically be 'growing' but there is a corresponding liability that is growing too - so it's no longer Apple's money to do what they want with - it's owed to creditors. So the 'film-flam' as you call it avoids no taxes with regard to the cash-horde.