4 ms·

>"But the fear that immigrants are 'taking our jobs' is largely unfounded" Except the entire article was about how real that fear is for certain workers in cer

by TheBiv 11y ago

>"But the fear that immigrants are 'taking our jobs' is largely unfounded" Except the entire article was about how real that fear is for certain workers in certain industries. Immigrants aren't taking jobs in every industry, but clearly they are in some industries.

onion2k 11y ago
Immigrants aren't taking the jobs. They're being given them by the business owner. It's a subtle difference, but it reframes where the blame lies, which is important.
- blfr 11y ago
  It's a distinction without a difference. Either way, you need to stop immigration or bar immigrants from employment to stop the process.
  - onion2k 11y ago
    Or make business owners pay legal immigrants and residents the same fair wage and give them the same conditions so there's no longer an incentive to choose one over the other. As for illegal immigrants, any business that employs them should be fined the value of the wages they saved, so again there's no incentive to employ them. All of this comes down to business owners screwing over residents to save a few bucks. It's not the fault of immigrants.
    - blfr 11y ago
      If the business owner paid immigrants the same living or otherwise higher wage then they would still be taking (or the business would be giving if you prefer) the jobs from the locals. This would also create an incentive to hire locals because they know the language and culture. However, there is no way for the wage to stay high while the you increase the supply of labour from a handful of locals to the entire poor population of the world. Illegal immigrants are entirely complicit here. They want to make a few bucks just like the business owners want to save a few bucks. This is a classic tragedy of the commons (the commons here being a nice western country). The only party that can fix things is the government. Or an owner of the country if there was one.
    - DrScump 11y ago
      "As for illegal immigrants, any business that employs them should be fined the value of the wages they saved..." If the worst consequence they could suffer is break-even, you continue the financial incentive of breaking the law.
    - gozur88 11y ago
      Legal or illegal it doesn't matter. We don't have enough low and un-skilled jobs for the people who live here. Adding more labor to that pool just means those people have no hope of increased real wages. Especially under current conditions, when a guest worker gets a job all the bunnies roll over and a citizen ends up on welfare.
  - lmm 11y ago
    Or you could change the conditions that lead employers to favour immigrants - make it harder for employers to threaten guest workers with deportation, make sure everyone working on a guest visa is aware of their rights and has access to legal representation.

by TheBiv 11y ago

onion2k 11y ago

Immigrants aren't taking the jobs. They're being given them by the business owner. It's a subtle difference, but it reframes where the blame lies, which is important.

blfr 11y ago
It's a distinction without a difference. Either way, you need to stop immigration or bar immigrants from employment to stop the process.
- onion2k 11y ago
  Or make business owners pay legal immigrants and residents the same fair wage and give them the same conditions so there's no longer an incentive to choose one over the other. As for illegal immigrants, any business that employs them should be fined the value of the wages they saved, so again there's no incentive to employ them. All of this comes down to business owners screwing over residents to save a few bucks. It's not the fault of immigrants.
  - blfr 11y ago
    If the business owner paid immigrants the same living or otherwise higher wage then they would still be taking (or the business would be giving if you prefer) the jobs from the locals. This would also create an incentive to hire locals because they know the language and culture. However, there is no way for the wage to stay high while the you increase the supply of labour from a handful of locals to the entire poor population of the world. Illegal immigrants are entirely complicit here. They want to make a few bucks just like the business owners want to save a few bucks. This is a classic tragedy of the commons (the commons here being a nice western country). The only party that can fix things is the government. Or an owner of the country if there was one.
  - DrScump 11y ago
    "As for illegal immigrants, any business that employs them should be fined the value of the wages they saved..." If the worst consequence they could suffer is break-even, you continue the financial incentive of breaking the law.
  - gozur88 11y ago
    Legal or illegal it doesn't matter. We don't have enough low and un-skilled jobs for the people who live here. Adding more labor to that pool just means those people have no hope of increased real wages. Especially under current conditions, when a guest worker gets a job all the bunnies roll over and a citizen ends up on welfare.
- lmm 11y ago
  Or you could change the conditions that lead employers to favour immigrants - make it harder for employers to threaten guest workers with deportation, make sure everyone working on a guest visa is aware of their rights and has access to legal representation.