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> Conservatives think it's 'fair' that everyone pays the same rate. Which is a position completely ignorant of the marginal utility of money. No, it isn't fai

> Conservatives think it's 'fair' that everyone pays the same rate. Which is a position completely ignorant of the marginal utility of money. No, it isn't fair that for one guy 10% could be the difference between getting by and not getting by while for the other guy 10% means no change to his lifestyle all. No, progressives think it's fair that the burden is felt equally and that requires understanding how money works. > 'Fair' depends strongly upon one's beliefs, and can't be objectively defined. Fair does depend on beliefs, but some people's beliefs are objectively stupid. Anyone who denies the marginal utility of money and insists a flat percentage is fair, doesn't understand money and doesn't belong in the conversation just as anyone who believes vaccines cause autism is objective stupid and doesn't belong in that conversation. Everyone has opinions, that doesn't make them equal.

Mikeb85 11y ago
Some people also thought "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" was fair. Most seemingly disagreed, given how history has unfolded. For the record, I agree with Piketty, Marx, and others of that particular persuasion. I'm all for progressive taxation, wealth and inheritance tax, all of it. But I'm also not ignorant of history...
- gnaritas 11y ago
  Nor am I, and implying progressives are communists is quite intellectually dishonest.
  - Mikeb85 11y ago
    Nor are you what? I said I agree with Piketty and Marx. Anyhow, the example was just rhetoric. The point is that communism started because people thought it was unfair that there was a rentier class who essentially monopolized wealth because they had inherited wealth. And communism fell because people thought it was unfair that people who were lazy made the same as people who worked hard. Studies have shown that most people in western societies prefer inequality as long as someone has less than them. They think inequality is 'fair'. Why do you think people value celebrities and rich people? People are happy with our 'lottery' system, where anyone can become rich, even if the majority don't, and even if the average struggles...
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      And we're back to communism again. This thread has nothing to do with communism. That you keep going there shows you can't have a serious conversation; goodbye.
      - Mikeb85 11y ago
        Socialism, the labour movement, and communism all come from the same place. It's funny, you're arguing for progressive taxation, but you don't understand the history behind labour movements, equal rights, welfare, socialism, etc... Or why communism is relevant in a discussion about rational choice, inequality and perceived fairness. I do get it though - Americans have been taught to hate communism, and thus have purged an entire century of socialist philosophy from their collective thoughts.
        gnaritas 11y ago
        > Socialism, the labour movement, and communism all come from the same place. That doesn't make them all equivalent. > It's funny, you're arguing for progressive taxation, but you don't understand the history Yes I do, put your phony superiority aside, there's no place for it here. Communism is not relevant just because we're talking about progressive taxation and that you think is simply shows you're too biased to have an intelligent conversation. > I do get it though - Americans have been taught to hate communism, and thus have purged an entire century of socialist philosophy from their collective thoughts. Then you don't get it, because that's not what's happening here. What's happening here is you think you're smarter than you are when you're not even able to engage intelligently in the conversation. A conversation about the fairness of progressive taxation does not have to devolve into a conversation about communism or socialism. You're taking it there because you have nothing more intelligent to offer. You have no thoughts of your own to offer other than regurgitating what you think you remember from history while pretending no one else is aware of history. Your arrogance is sickening. You're a kid, still in college, and you're acting like no one else has heard of history, grow up and learn to engage like an adult. Have some thoughts of your own. No one is here for a history lesson from a kid who screams communism and socialism every time tax policy is brought up.

Mikeb85 11y ago

Some people also thought "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" was fair. Most seemingly disagreed, given how history has unfolded. For the record, I agree with Piketty, Marx, and others of that particular persuasion. I'm all for progressive taxation, wealth and inheritance tax, all of it. But I'm also not ignorant of history...

gnaritas 11y ago
Nor am I, and implying progressives are communists is quite intellectually dishonest.
- Mikeb85 11y ago
  Nor are you what? I said I agree with Piketty and Marx. Anyhow, the example was just rhetoric. The point is that communism started because people thought it was unfair that there was a rentier class who essentially monopolized wealth because they had inherited wealth. And communism fell because people thought it was unfair that people who were lazy made the same as people who worked hard. Studies have shown that most people in western societies prefer inequality as long as someone has less than them. They think inequality is 'fair'. Why do you think people value celebrities and rich people? People are happy with our 'lottery' system, where anyone can become rich, even if the majority don't, and even if the average struggles...
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    And we're back to communism again. This thread has nothing to do with communism. That you keep going there shows you can't have a serious conversation; goodbye.
    - Mikeb85 11y ago
      Socialism, the labour movement, and communism all come from the same place. It's funny, you're arguing for progressive taxation, but you don't understand the history behind labour movements, equal rights, welfare, socialism, etc... Or why communism is relevant in a discussion about rational choice, inequality and perceived fairness. I do get it though - Americans have been taught to hate communism, and thus have purged an entire century of socialist philosophy from their collective thoughts.
      - gnaritas 11y ago
        > Socialism, the labour movement, and communism all come from the same place. That doesn't make them all equivalent. > It's funny, you're arguing for progressive taxation, but you don't understand the history Yes I do, put your phony superiority aside, there's no place for it here. Communism is not relevant just because we're talking about progressive taxation and that you think is simply shows you're too biased to have an intelligent conversation. > I do get it though - Americans have been taught to hate communism, and thus have purged an entire century of socialist philosophy from their collective thoughts. Then you don't get it, because that's not what's happening here. What's happening here is you think you're smarter than you are when you're not even able to engage intelligently in the conversation. A conversation about the fairness of progressive taxation does not have to devolve into a conversation about communism or socialism. You're taking it there because you have nothing more intelligent to offer. You have no thoughts of your own to offer other than regurgitating what you think you remember from history while pretending no one else is aware of history. Your arrogance is sickening. You're a kid, still in college, and you're acting like no one else has heard of history, grow up and learn to engage like an adult. Have some thoughts of your own. No one is here for a history lesson from a kid who screams communism and socialism every time tax policy is brought up.