5 ms·

> Jew is a race that I'm aware of. What? No. Ashkenazim might be genetically similar, but even there, not a race. And there are also Sephardim. Also Jews from

by maratd 11y ago

> Jew is a race that I'm aware of. What? No. Ashkenazim might be genetically similar, but even there, not a race. And there are also Sephardim. Also Jews from Africa? Definitely not a race.

nickpsecurity 11y ago
The references here seem to disagree: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jewish_Race https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jewish_Race Particularly, this statement: "Genetic studies on Jews show that most Jews worldwide bear a common genetic heritage which originates in the Middle East, and that they bear their strongest resemblance to the peoples of the Fertile Crescent.[58][59][60] The genetic composition of different Jewish groups shows that Jews share a common genetic pool dating back 4,000 years, as a marker of their common ancestral origin." That Jew/Hebrew isn't a race is a very new claim to me. What do you have to support it?
- rycfan 11y ago
  > What do you have to support it? Is Christian a race? Also, this (PDF warning): https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf181.pdf https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf181.pdf.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    We're talking about a people that share a common origin, physical traits, and genetic patterns. Not a religious doctrine. The other commenter thinks that race doesn't exist. Most stuff I've read implied it did. Nobody doubts the existence of Christian religion.
    - rycfan 11y ago
      If it was a race as we contemplate race in its current definition, it would be on the government form I posted. It isn't. It's not a race like that (nor, really, in any other way). Yes, some Jews have a common genetic pattern. Many don't. Either you're talking about the religion, which is clearly not a race (as you said). Or you're talking about a group that generally shares the same religion, that descended from a few groups that lived co-located thousands of years ago. Of course, many are descended from those groups. What makes that a race? And I didn't mention Christianity to ask if anyone doubted it existed. I mentioned Christianity to show how silly it is to consider Jews a race. If Christianity isn't a race (even though many Christians descend from a common ancestor), then Jews aren't a race. - Technically, if you are a Christian, you probably believe you descended from Adam & Eve, sort of the ultimate common ancestor.
      - nickpsecurity 11y ago
        Finally, a comment with some specific counterpoints. I appreciate it. So, you're saying that many works just wrongly conflate concepts of a group and race to the point that there's a misconception about the existence of a Jewish race? Also, given the form, that there are only 5 races in existence?
        rycfan 11y ago
        Sorry for taking forever to reply. That's pretty much what I'm saying. I think the 5 races on the form conform to my understanding of race, so I think that part is right as well. I guess fundamentally I can't wrap my head around the idea of identifying a religious group and calling that a race. As I mention, we don't do it with any other religious group, so why Jews?

by maratd 11y ago

> Jew is a race that I'm aware of. What? No. Ashkenazim might be genetically similar, but even there, not a race. And there are also Sephardim. Also Jews from Africa? Definitely not a race.

nickpsecurity 11y ago

The references here seem to disagree: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jewish_Race https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jewish_Race Particularly, this statement: "Genetic studies on Jews show that most Jews worldwide bear a common genetic heritage which originates in the Middle East, and that they bear their strongest resemblance to the peoples of the Fertile Crescent.[58][59][60] The genetic composition of different Jewish groups shows that Jews share a common genetic pool dating back 4,000 years, as a marker of their common ancestral origin." That Jew/Hebrew isn't a race is a very new claim to me. What do you have to support it?

rycfan 11y ago
> What do you have to support it? Is Christian a race? Also, this (PDF warning): https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf181.pdf https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf181.pdf.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  We're talking about a people that share a common origin, physical traits, and genetic patterns. Not a religious doctrine. The other commenter thinks that race doesn't exist. Most stuff I've read implied it did. Nobody doubts the existence of Christian religion.
  - rycfan 11y ago
    If it was a race as we contemplate race in its current definition, it would be on the government form I posted. It isn't. It's not a race like that (nor, really, in any other way). Yes, some Jews have a common genetic pattern. Many don't. Either you're talking about the religion, which is clearly not a race (as you said). Or you're talking about a group that generally shares the same religion, that descended from a few groups that lived co-located thousands of years ago. Of course, many are descended from those groups. What makes that a race? And I didn't mention Christianity to ask if anyone doubted it existed. I mentioned Christianity to show how silly it is to consider Jews a race. If Christianity isn't a race (even though many Christians descend from a common ancestor), then Jews aren't a race. - Technically, if you are a Christian, you probably believe you descended from Adam & Eve, sort of the ultimate common ancestor.
    - nickpsecurity 11y ago
      Finally, a comment with some specific counterpoints. I appreciate it. So, you're saying that many works just wrongly conflate concepts of a group and race to the point that there's a misconception about the existence of a Jewish race? Also, given the form, that there are only 5 races in existence?
      - rycfan 11y ago
        Sorry for taking forever to reply. That's pretty much what I'm saying. I think the 5 races on the form conform to my understanding of race, so I think that part is right as well. I guess fundamentally I can't wrap my head around the idea of identifying a religious group and calling that a race. As I mention, we don't do it with any other religious group, so why Jews?