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> The fine was stupid when it was issued and it's ramifications were stupid when they forced Windows 7 N into existence. This is just opinion > If you view th

by Oletros 11y ago

> The fine was stupid when it was issued and it's ramifications were stupid when they forced Windows 7 N into existence. This is just opinion > If you view the fine as a tax it all makes far more sense It is not a tax, so it doesn't make sense > The fine is merely a tax that is the cost of doing business in Europe Wrong, the fine is a consequence of breaking competition laws > And Europe certainly has no issue demanding money from an American corporation. The majority of the fines have been given to European companies, more than 80% of the money. >Nation states demanding unreasonable things from foreign companies is nothing new. There's many a ruling that would have gone another way were the defendant a local entity. Reality says that this is not the case, but if you have more data, I will look at it

kchoudhu 11y ago
> Wrong, the fine is a consequence of breaking competition laws I assure you, the cost of breaking the law is factored into a spreadsheet somewhere in all corporations of note, and that this metaphorical spreadsheet is always used to make decisions. The OP is absolutely correct when he says that fines are the cost of doing business. He's wrong when he says that this is a phenomenon associated with Europe though -- corporate amorality ultimately knows nothing of national boundaries.
- Oletros 11y ago
  > The OP is absolutely correct when he says that fines are the cost of doing business Perhaps is correct is it is the cost of doing business BREAKING the law, but it is wrong when the OP says that it is the cost just for operating in a place without breaking any law
forrestthewoods 11y ago
1) Windows 7 N is as objectively stupid as can be given that is an object with zero consumer interest created in the name of consumer protection. It's not a thing that anyone wants or wanted. It's a colossal waste of resources that provides zero value. 2/3) You're right. A fine isn't a tax. Now assume you are a nation state and some foreign entity is making a shit ton of money off your population. Now let's assume that you feel you aren't getting as large of a slice of pie as you deserve. What are some ways you can increase your slice size? Raising taxes is one way. Issuing fines is another way. For example local police generate money off things such as parking fines. It's true that the parking fine is a consequence of breaking a local ordinance. However the rationale for issuing more fines can one of several reasons. It could be an increased focus on enforcing existing laws. It could also be because the police need more money and they looked at ways to generate more revenue and found that an increased focus on parking violations would be a cost efficient way to do so. This same line of reasoning can be applied to certain Euro fines. 4) That's fine. The commission can issue fines for many reasons. 5) Ask some lawyer friends for the opinion on Nintendo vs Galoob. They almost certainly discussed it in school. Opinions will vary. More than a few will likely agree that if Nintendo were an American company the outcome would have been different. That's the most famous case I know of.
- Oletros 11y ago
  > 2/3) You're right. A fine isn't a tax. Now assume you are a nation state and some foreign entity is making a shit ton of money off your population. Still waiting a proof that it is because an American company > 5) Ask some lawyer friends for the opinion on Nintendo vs Galoob. They almost certainly discussed it in school. Opinions will vary. More than a few will likely agree that if Nintendo were an American company the outcome would have been different. That's the most famous case I know of. Some USA case doesn't make any argument for your accusation about EU. You can believe what you want, but reality is what it is
  - forrestthewoods 11y ago
    Oh, I misread you. Sorry. I thought you didn't believe that such cases existed at all. As opposed to not believing this case was such a scenario. That's why I gave an unrelated example. Sorry! And of course reality is what it is. No shit! Saying that isn't an argument. Windows 7 N is objectively stupid. The default browser choice is objectively stupid. The released Excel file formats were stupid. In fact I think you'll be hard pressed to come up with a list of changes I product or behavior brought on by the ruling that benefit consumers in any meaningful way.

by Oletros 11y ago

kchoudhu 11y ago

> Wrong, the fine is a consequence of breaking competition laws I assure you, the cost of breaking the law is factored into a spreadsheet somewhere in all corporations of note, and that this metaphorical spreadsheet is always used to make decisions. The OP is absolutely correct when he says that fines are the cost of doing business. He's wrong when he says that this is a phenomenon associated with Europe though -- corporate amorality ultimately knows nothing of national boundaries.

Oletros 11y ago
> The OP is absolutely correct when he says that fines are the cost of doing business Perhaps is correct is it is the cost of doing business BREAKING the law, but it is wrong when the OP says that it is the cost just for operating in a place without breaking any law

forrestthewoods 11y ago

1) Windows 7 N is as objectively stupid as can be given that is an object with zero consumer interest created in the name of consumer protection. It's not a thing that anyone wants or wanted. It's a colossal waste of resources that provides zero value. 2/3) You're right. A fine isn't a tax. Now assume you are a nation state and some foreign entity is making a shit ton of money off your population. Now let's assume that you feel you aren't getting as large of a slice of pie as you deserve. What are some ways you can increase your slice size? Raising taxes is one way. Issuing fines is another way. For example local police generate money off things such as parking fines. It's true that the parking fine is a consequence of breaking a local ordinance. However the rationale for issuing more fines can one of several reasons. It could be an increased focus on enforcing existing laws. It could also be because the police need more money and they looked at ways to generate more revenue and found that an increased focus on parking violations would be a cost efficient way to do so. This same line of reasoning can be applied to certain Euro fines. 4) That's fine. The commission can issue fines for many reasons. 5) Ask some lawyer friends for the opinion on Nintendo vs Galoob. They almost certainly discussed it in school. Opinions will vary. More than a few will likely agree that if Nintendo were an American company the outcome would have been different. That's the most famous case I know of.

Oletros 11y ago
> 2/3) You're right. A fine isn't a tax. Now assume you are a nation state and some foreign entity is making a shit ton of money off your population. Still waiting a proof that it is because an American company > 5) Ask some lawyer friends for the opinion on Nintendo vs Galoob. They almost certainly discussed it in school. Opinions will vary. More than a few will likely agree that if Nintendo were an American company the outcome would have been different. That's the most famous case I know of. Some USA case doesn't make any argument for your accusation about EU. You can believe what you want, but reality is what it is
- forrestthewoods 11y ago
  Oh, I misread you. Sorry. I thought you didn't believe that such cases existed at all. As opposed to not believing this case was such a scenario. That's why I gave an unrelated example. Sorry! And of course reality is what it is. No shit! Saying that isn't an argument. Windows 7 N is objectively stupid. The default browser choice is objectively stupid. The released Excel file formats were stupid. In fact I think you'll be hard pressed to come up with a list of changes I product or behavior brought on by the ruling that benefit consumers in any meaningful way.