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And yet, hardened Linux developers like Al Viro will rant all about the awful systems design inside and outside of the Linux kernel constantly (cgroups and udev
by vezzy-fnord 11y ago
And yet, hardened Linux developers like Al Viro will rant all about the awful systems design inside and outside of the Linux kernel constantly (cgroups and udev are frequent targets of his). We can thus extrapolate that a lack of a kernel debugger has not reduced leaky abstractions in any measurable way. At best we can only speculate in counterfactuals.
Solaris has a kernel debugger and a more concise architecture.
- edejong 11y agoLinus argument is that use of debuggers may contribute to bad design, but he does not prohibit their use. As Linus was not the core contributor to cgroups (Google was) and kernel debugging certainly was available when cgroups was first implemented, I would say the opposite might actually be true. Personally, I think the UNIX OS design is a poor fit for the requirements of Docker et al. The problems with cgroups should be a signal that it breaks the fundamental design assumptions of Linux (doing fundamental resource separation and multi-ring security in a monolithic kernel).
- vezzy-fnord 11y agoActually, I agree with most of this. However, Linus letting in the cgroups branch instead of vetoing it proves the opposite, unless the presence of some kernel debugging (nothing close to kmdb, I'd think) depleted Linus' skills somehow.