8 ms·

Yes, Google's statement in the article suggests Google will be working on OpenJDK, at least more than they already have been.

by tweakz 11y ago

ethbro 11y ago
So, what's the most evil Oracle can be against future versions of Android given this? And who actually guides the Java roadmap? The OpenJDK trademark grant (http://openjdk.java.net/legal/openjdk-trademark-notice.html http://openjdk.java.net/legal/openjdk-trademark-notice.html) seems to spin on whether or not "the Software is a substantially complete implementation of the OpenJDK development kit or runtime environment source code retrieved from a single Website, and the vast majority of the Software code is identical to that upstream Original Software"? What's to stop Oracle from deciding that future Java roadmaps are going to exclude Android-specific commits? Neither IBM nor Apple's interests seem particularly aligned with Google here (I'm assuming they throw some kind of weight in the OpenJDK politics).
- dkarapetyan 11y ago
  Time and time again we see such short term thinking does not pay off. It wouldn't be evil on Oracle's part to do that, it would be just plain stupid. The resurgence of Microsoft shows that being open and transparent is the actual winning strategy. Goodwill among developers is not a quantifiable thing but it makes a huge difference.
  - ebbv 11y ago
    > The resurgence of Microsoft shows that being open and transparent is the actual winning strategy. Or at least being a little bit open and transparent enough to build good will, anyway. There's a lot of non-open, non-transparent, non-friendly things about Windows 10.
    - yareally 11y ago
      I believe the OP was referring to the openness and transparency in .net, c#, typescript and visual studio code.
      - ebbv 11y ago
        He probably was but the way he phrased it he made it sound like Microsoft is widely open and trustworthy, when it's not. Some teams are able to be open and transparent, but the company as a whole is not.
  - HillRat 11y ago
    Yeah, but this is Oracle we're talking about. They do evil and stupid before breakfast and short-term thinking for the rest of the day.
    - threeseed 11y ago
      Let's be grown ups here. Oracle isn't evil by any normal definition of the word. And you sure as hell don't get to $10 billion a year in profits by being stupid.
      - praveenster 11y ago
        All the responses to this thread on Quora (many of whom are ex Oracle employees) seem to suggest that they are disliked: https://www.quora.com/Whats-so-bad-about-Oracle https://www.quora.com/Whats-so-bad-about-Oracle
        sigzero 11y ago
        Disliked isn't evil. People should stop throwing around that word so easily though.
        mistermumble 11y ago
        What they did to Peoplesoft was evil.
        ethbro 11y ago
        ... And now I have a new baseline as to what a pissed off software engineer looks like.
        DonHopkins 11y ago
        "You actually don't need to be open minded about Oracle. You are wasting the openness of your mind. Go be open minded about lots of other things. I mean, let's face it: it's work to be open minded, right? I mean, you've got to constantly discard data and be like "ok, I need to be open minded about this". No, with Oracle, just be close-minded. It's a lot easier. Because the thing about Oracle, and this is just amazing to me, is, you know: what makes life worth living is the fact that stereotypes aren't true, in general. It's the complexity of life. And as you know people, as you learn about things, you realize that these generalizations we have, virtually to a generalization, are false. Well except for this one, as it turns out. What you think of Oracle is even truer than you think it is. There has been no entity in human history with less complexity or nuance to it than Oracle." -Bryan M. Cantrill https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=33m1s https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=33m1s And later on he warns: "Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison!" -Bryan M. Cantrill
  - frozenport 11y ago
    >>The resurgence of Microsoft No, this shows you can be a dick and promise to stop and everything will be forgiven.
    - dkarapetyan 11y ago
      It's not just a promise. They have open sourced basically all the core parts of their developer infrastructure. What twitter did was be a dick and then promise to do better whereas Microsoft is actually doing it.
      - protomyth 11y ago
        Given Windows 10 and its phone home approach, they are still acting like a bad player.
    - aceperry 11y ago
      I don't recall Microsoft saying that they would promise to stop. What they've done instead was to act in more honorable ways. The jury is still out when it comes to forgiveness, but they've made a pretty good start at it.
- Someone 11y ago
  The trademark is orthogonal to the license and its patent grant. Why would Google be particularly concerned whether they can call what they ship "OpenJDK"?
  - ethbro 11y ago
    Because ultimately the trademark is as much the "thing" as anything else could be said to be, at least as far as I could think it through. Everything I can read also makes it seem like the patent grants (above the GPL) are all tied to the condition of generating a compatible implementation of Java. If Google wants to fork OpenJDK at some point down the road, they'd better have faith in the GPL.

Yes, Google's statement in the article suggests Google will be working on OpenJDK, at least more than they already have been.

by tweakz 11y ago

Yes, Google's statement in the article suggests Google will be working on OpenJDK, at least more than they already have been.

ethbro 11y ago

So, what's the most evil Oracle can be against future versions of Android given this? And who actually guides the Java roadmap? The OpenJDK trademark grant (http://openjdk.java.net/legal/openjdk-trademark-notice.html http://openjdk.java.net/legal/openjdk-trademark-notice.html) seems to spin on whether or not "the Software is a substantially complete implementation of the OpenJDK development kit or runtime environment source code retrieved from a single Website, and the vast majority of the Software code is identical to that upstream Original Software"? What's to stop Oracle from deciding that future Java roadmaps are going to exclude Android-specific commits? Neither IBM nor Apple's interests seem particularly aligned with Google here (I'm assuming they throw some kind of weight in the OpenJDK politics).

dkarapetyan 11y ago
Time and time again we see such short term thinking does not pay off. It wouldn't be evil on Oracle's part to do that, it would be just plain stupid. The resurgence of Microsoft shows that being open and transparent is the actual winning strategy. Goodwill among developers is not a quantifiable thing but it makes a huge difference.
- ebbv 11y ago
  > The resurgence of Microsoft shows that being open and transparent is the actual winning strategy. Or at least being a little bit open and transparent enough to build good will, anyway. There's a lot of non-open, non-transparent, non-friendly things about Windows 10.
  - yareally 11y ago
    I believe the OP was referring to the openness and transparency in .net, c#, typescript and visual studio code.
    - ebbv 11y ago
      He probably was but the way he phrased it he made it sound like Microsoft is widely open and trustworthy, when it's not. Some teams are able to be open and transparent, but the company as a whole is not.
- HillRat 11y ago
  Yeah, but this is Oracle we're talking about. They do evil and stupid before breakfast and short-term thinking for the rest of the day.
  - threeseed 11y ago
    Let's be grown ups here. Oracle isn't evil by any normal definition of the word. And you sure as hell don't get to $10 billion a year in profits by being stupid.
    - praveenster 11y ago
      All the responses to this thread on Quora (many of whom are ex Oracle employees) seem to suggest that they are disliked: https://www.quora.com/Whats-so-bad-about-Oracle https://www.quora.com/Whats-so-bad-about-Oracle
      - sigzero 11y ago
        Disliked isn't evil. People should stop throwing around that word so easily though.
        mistermumble 11y ago
        What they did to Peoplesoft was evil.
      - ethbro 11y ago
        ... And now I have a new baseline as to what a pissed off software engineer looks like.
      - DonHopkins 11y ago
        "You actually don't need to be open minded about Oracle. You are wasting the openness of your mind. Go be open minded about lots of other things. I mean, let's face it: it's work to be open minded, right? I mean, you've got to constantly discard data and be like "ok, I need to be open minded about this". No, with Oracle, just be close-minded. It's a lot easier. Because the thing about Oracle, and this is just amazing to me, is, you know: what makes life worth living is the fact that stereotypes aren't true, in general. It's the complexity of life. And as you know people, as you learn about things, you realize that these generalizations we have, virtually to a generalization, are false. Well except for this one, as it turns out. What you think of Oracle is even truer than you think it is. There has been no entity in human history with less complexity or nuance to it than Oracle." -Bryan M. Cantrill https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=33m1s https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=33m1s And later on he warns: "Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison!" -Bryan M. Cantrill
- frozenport 11y ago
  >>The resurgence of Microsoft No, this shows you can be a dick and promise to stop and everything will be forgiven.
  - dkarapetyan 11y ago
    It's not just a promise. They have open sourced basically all the core parts of their developer infrastructure. What twitter did was be a dick and then promise to do better whereas Microsoft is actually doing it.
    - protomyth 11y ago
      Given Windows 10 and its phone home approach, they are still acting like a bad player.
  - aceperry 11y ago
    I don't recall Microsoft saying that they would promise to stop. What they've done instead was to act in more honorable ways. The jury is still out when it comes to forgiveness, but they've made a pretty good start at it.
Someone 11y ago
The trademark is orthogonal to the license and its patent grant. Why would Google be particularly concerned whether they can call what they ship "OpenJDK"?
- ethbro 11y ago
  Because ultimately the trademark is as much the "thing" as anything else could be said to be, at least as far as I could think it through. Everything I can read also makes it seem like the patent grants (above the GPL) are all tied to the condition of generating a compatible implementation of Java. If Google wants to fork OpenJDK at some point down the road, they'd better have faith in the GPL.