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Having been dealing with some sound problems lately: I have to observe that American cities are loud compared to most overseas cities in my experience. Everythi

by erentz 11y ago

Having been dealing with some sound problems lately: I have to observe that American cities are loud compared to most overseas cities in my experience. Everything about them is louder, and I'm not sure why or how it got that way, and why it isn't seen as something to remedy. Particularly when we want to encourage increased density and inner city living. While attacking the problem through better design and insulation is one way I also think we need to look at the amount of noise produced outside too.

civilian 11y ago
If you're looking for loud overseas cities, you should visit Beijing. :) Heavy car traffic, constant honking, loud salespeople, and everyone is constantly hawking a loogie (since it's unhealthy to swallow phlegm, according to traditional Chinese medicine.) What quiet overseas cities were you thinking about?
- erentz 11y ago
  That's very true, add in most large Asian cities outside of Japan to that list (Bangkok, Manila, ...). I was thinking mostly of experiences in the major European/Australian/NZ cities.
Htsthbjig 11y ago
It is obvious to me: American cities are designed around cars and only cars. Old cities in Europe and Japan were designed around people walking around, basically because there was not anything else when those cities were created. They had small streets, only some of them were demolished and started anew, like Lineal in Barcelona or Castellana in Madrid. Public transportation like subways improved the situation, but it was a problem at first. Now it is something that people are starting to value, walking(or public transport) for shopping, for work and to see friends. Cities like Boston, Detroit, those were cities designed for cars. As a student I lived a year in Boston and was shocked on how much the city depended on cars. Let's not talk about L.A, even more.
- dpark 11y ago
  > Old cities in Europe and Japan were designed around people walking around, basically because there was not anything else when those cities were created. This is romanticism. Old cities weren't just filled with pedestrian traffic. There were lots of carts and animals pulling them. Those lovely cobblestone streets in Europe were created for vehicle traffic. Pedestrian traffic doesn't need that kind of durable surface. The old-world streets were (and are) smaller, but not because only pedestrians were using them.
  - joshkpeterson 11y ago
    Yeah I remember reading somewhere that NYC in the early part of the 20th century was actually very loud.
  - joshkpeterson 11y ago
    Yeah I remember reading somewhere that NYC in the early part of the 20th century was actually very loud.
  - keithpeter 11y ago
    Iron rimmed cart wheels would do it (you needed a lot of carts) along with all the people you needed pre-combustion engine to carry stuff around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVQiEJW7RWg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVQiEJW7RWg http://www.victorianlondon.org/transport/traffic.htm http://www.victorianlondon.org/transport/traffic.htm Clogs (wooden shoes worn routinely in earlier centuries) with nails in for gripping the slippery cobbles. Victorian London would have been seriously loud I imagine, at least in the main roads. Then you had music. http://vichist.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/sounds-of-victorian-london.html http://vichist.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/sounds-of-victorian-lo... However, I think that the grandparent post may have a point: European cities do have dense cores, so cars tend in many cases to be routed around the edge of the core in a 'ring road' system. As a practical example, Birmingham UK has extended the Metro into the very city centre, removing car traffic from a few main streets. It is noticeably quieter now in those streets compared to before the changes. When the system is fully operational, we will see how the acoustic footprint changes. Once outside the main streets of the city, but still within the central core, you can find pockets of quiet - song thrush/nightingale quiet.

by erentz 11y ago

civilian 11y ago

If you're looking for loud overseas cities, you should visit Beijing. :) Heavy car traffic, constant honking, loud salespeople, and everyone is constantly hawking a loogie (since it's unhealthy to swallow phlegm, according to traditional Chinese medicine.) What quiet overseas cities were you thinking about?

erentz 11y ago
That's very true, add in most large Asian cities outside of Japan to that list (Bangkok, Manila, ...). I was thinking mostly of experiences in the major European/Australian/NZ cities.

Htsthbjig 11y ago

It is obvious to me: American cities are designed around cars and only cars. Old cities in Europe and Japan were designed around people walking around, basically because there was not anything else when those cities were created. They had small streets, only some of them were demolished and started anew, like Lineal in Barcelona or Castellana in Madrid. Public transportation like subways improved the situation, but it was a problem at first. Now it is something that people are starting to value, walking(or public transport) for shopping, for work and to see friends. Cities like Boston, Detroit, those were cities designed for cars. As a student I lived a year in Boston and was shocked on how much the city depended on cars. Let's not talk about L.A, even more.

dpark 11y ago
> Old cities in Europe and Japan were designed around people walking around, basically because there was not anything else when those cities were created. This is romanticism. Old cities weren't just filled with pedestrian traffic. There were lots of carts and animals pulling them. Those lovely cobblestone streets in Europe were created for vehicle traffic. Pedestrian traffic doesn't need that kind of durable surface. The old-world streets were (and are) smaller, but not because only pedestrians were using them.
- joshkpeterson 11y ago
  Yeah I remember reading somewhere that NYC in the early part of the 20th century was actually very loud.
- joshkpeterson 11y ago
  Yeah I remember reading somewhere that NYC in the early part of the 20th century was actually very loud.
- keithpeter 11y ago
  Iron rimmed cart wheels would do it (you needed a lot of carts) along with all the people you needed pre-combustion engine to carry stuff around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVQiEJW7RWg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVQiEJW7RWg http://www.victorianlondon.org/transport/traffic.htm http://www.victorianlondon.org/transport/traffic.htm Clogs (wooden shoes worn routinely in earlier centuries) with nails in for gripping the slippery cobbles. Victorian London would have been seriously loud I imagine, at least in the main roads. Then you had music. http://vichist.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/sounds-of-victorian-london.html http://vichist.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/sounds-of-victorian-lo... However, I think that the grandparent post may have a point: European cities do have dense cores, so cars tend in many cases to be routed around the edge of the core in a 'ring road' system. As a practical example, Birmingham UK has extended the Metro into the very city centre, removing car traffic from a few main streets. It is noticeably quieter now in those streets compared to before the changes. When the system is fully operational, we will see how the acoustic footprint changes. Once outside the main streets of the city, but still within the central core, you can find pockets of quiet - song thrush/nightingale quiet.