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Why did they lose to Uber and Lyft?

by elwell 11y ago

pbreit 11y ago
Probably a lot of reasons but I think they clung to their scheme of letting drivers set their prices which I believe they both thought might be preferred as well as "more legal". But it was generally a worse experience.
- johnrob 11y ago
  Spot on. Uber and Lyft made legality gambles that paid off (they weren't shut down), and were then able to reap the reward (apps were easy to use). I hope hindsight doesn't forget that it was indeed a gamble. Homejoy made a similar bet in the housecleaning industry, but couldn't find a way to pay the illegal workers that make up a good portion of the industry (there were other issues Homejoy mentioned, but this one stood out to me - I could be wrong though).
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > Uber and Lyft made legality gambles that paid off (they weren't shut down) Has the IRS ruled yet on whether Uber and Lyft are going to owe hundreds of millions in back taxes and penalties due to misclassifying drivers as independent contractors? No? Still plenty of time to be shut down.
    - eli 11y ago
      Sure, but it's hard to argue they'd be better off acting more like Sidecar.
    - pbreit 11y ago
      That'll never happen. For starters, 1099 classification is very defensible. 2nd, if some drivers should be W2s, any type of deal would likely only be in the future. 3rd, in the very, very worse case, there's no way it would be 100s of millions.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - tzier 11y ago
        1099 classification is not very defensible - see FedEx $228M settlement in just CA. Obama said that he thinks a third class of workers is just a watered down version of W-2 protections. Since we're likely going to see a Democratic president, they're going to be more W-2 friendly than 1099 friendly (though hopefully also technology friendly). Point being...under existing regulations, Uber/Lyft drivers are probably W-2s. But Uber/Lyft are lobbying hard for an alternative, and will probably succeed in changing minds about it faster than the government can move to crack down.
        pbreit 11y ago
        I don't think FedEx very similar. For example, FedEx employees required to show up for work, wear uniforms, etc. I think "casual" drivers are definitely not W2s. And more serious drivers still probably are not. They have far too much lee-way in what to do including not show up at all.
    - prostoalex 11y ago
      Looks like it will be up to the court to decide http://uberlawsuit.com http://uberlawsuit.com I'd imagine in some markets Uber would actually benefit from W-2 workforce - this would allow them to mandate hours and location to avoid the dreaded (by consumers) surge pricing.
- amorphid 11y ago
  I used Sidecar a lot when it was fixed pricing. When it went to the variable marketplace, it became more of a pain. Eventually I stopled using it.
- CloudYeller 11y ago
  Yep this was the main reason why I stopped using them. I was using their app while I was out on a saturday night and noticed some drivers setting insanely high prices like $999-- and some prices appeared to change at the last minute, so my intoxicated finger might have requested a ridiculously expensive ride. I couldn't tell if that was a bug or if some drivers were actually trying to screw people over; either way, that was the last time I ever used it. I emailed them about it because I figured they should fix the bug or at least implement some kind validation so that rides would have a reasonable maximum price, but obviously nothing happened.
eli 11y ago
Maybe just bad luck but I had two consecutive very poor experiences with Sidecar drivers the first and only two times I tried to use. My totally uninformed assumption is that all the good drivers went to lyft or uber, which have consistently had higher volume here in DC

Why did they lose to Uber and Lyft?

by elwell 11y ago

Why did they lose to Uber and Lyft?

Probably a lot of reasons but I think they clung to their scheme of letting drivers set their prices which I believe they both thought might be preferred as well as "more legal". But it was generally a worse experience.

johnrob 11y ago
Spot on. Uber and Lyft made legality gambles that paid off (they weren't shut down), and were then able to reap the reward (apps were easy to use). I hope hindsight doesn't forget that it was indeed a gamble. Homejoy made a similar bet in the housecleaning industry, but couldn't find a way to pay the illegal workers that make up a good portion of the industry (there were other issues Homejoy mentioned, but this one stood out to me - I could be wrong though).
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > Uber and Lyft made legality gambles that paid off (they weren't shut down) Has the IRS ruled yet on whether Uber and Lyft are going to owe hundreds of millions in back taxes and penalties due to misclassifying drivers as independent contractors? No? Still plenty of time to be shut down.
  - eli 11y ago
    Sure, but it's hard to argue they'd be better off acting more like Sidecar.
  - pbreit 11y ago
    That'll never happen. For starters, 1099 classification is very defensible. 2nd, if some drivers should be W2s, any type of deal would likely only be in the future. 3rd, in the very, very worse case, there's no way it would be 100s of millions.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - tzier 11y ago
      1099 classification is not very defensible - see FedEx $228M settlement in just CA. Obama said that he thinks a third class of workers is just a watered down version of W-2 protections. Since we're likely going to see a Democratic president, they're going to be more W-2 friendly than 1099 friendly (though hopefully also technology friendly). Point being...under existing regulations, Uber/Lyft drivers are probably W-2s. But Uber/Lyft are lobbying hard for an alternative, and will probably succeed in changing minds about it faster than the government can move to crack down.
      - pbreit 11y ago
        I don't think FedEx very similar. For example, FedEx employees required to show up for work, wear uniforms, etc. I think "casual" drivers are definitely not W2s. And more serious drivers still probably are not. They have far too much lee-way in what to do including not show up at all.
  - prostoalex 11y ago
    Looks like it will be up to the court to decide http://uberlawsuit.com http://uberlawsuit.com I'd imagine in some markets Uber would actually benefit from W-2 workforce - this would allow them to mandate hours and location to avoid the dreaded (by consumers) surge pricing.
amorphid 11y ago
I used Sidecar a lot when it was fixed pricing. When it went to the variable marketplace, it became more of a pain. Eventually I stopled using it.
CloudYeller 11y ago
Yep this was the main reason why I stopped using them. I was using their app while I was out on a saturday night and noticed some drivers setting insanely high prices like $999-- and some prices appeared to change at the last minute, so my intoxicated finger might have requested a ridiculously expensive ride. I couldn't tell if that was a bug or if some drivers were actually trying to screw people over; either way, that was the last time I ever used it. I emailed them about it because I figured they should fix the bug or at least implement some kind validation so that rides would have a reasonable maximum price, but obviously nothing happened.

eli 11y ago

Maybe just bad luck but I had two consecutive very poor experiences with Sidecar drivers the first and only two times I tried to use. My totally uninformed assumption is that all the good drivers went to lyft or uber, which have consistently had higher volume here in DC