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Only someone who knows nothing about shooting pistols would think that. How on earth is it a bad design? A normal Glock with its single-action mechanism is pr

Only someone who knows nothing about shooting pistols would think that. How on earth is it a bad design? A normal Glock with its single-action mechanism is pretty close to the best handgun design there is now. A double-action-only (DAO) design suffers from heavy trigger pulls, which cause terrible shot accuracy. Look at the NYPD and how many innocent bystanders they shoot because of their 12-lb trigger pulls. DA/SA are even worse because the first shot is double-action, so it's inconsistent. Both these designs should be banned from law enforcement use because of public safety. The only thing wrong with Glocks is they only have the trigger safety, and no external safety (like the grip safety on Springfield XD pistols), so they misfire if you're clumsy when reholstering and something gets into the trigger guard, and this has caused a bunch of cops to shoot themselves in the foot or leg.

jMyles 11y ago
> Only someone who knows nothing about shooting pistols would think that. Come on now. Plenty of the most seasoned experts on earth don't care for the Glock design. DA/SA requires a lot of practice, sure, but it's a great mechanism. Are you saying that there's a known correlation between departments who, say, carry Sigs (the worst in your assessment), vs heavy glocks (second worst) vs. light glocks? I'm aware of no such data. At the end of the day, different people prefer different pistols. I happen to really like the DA/SA of the FNH's and Sig P220.
moron4hire 11y ago
Maybe the problem in NYC isn't accuracy, maybe it's the number of people the NYC cops are trying to shoot. Yes, Glocks make great target shooting pistols. I don't think it's a good gun to be putting into the hands of adrenaline-jacked people on the street. This year alone we've seen several instances of cops having shot suspects already subdued on the ground as well as each other because they are squeezing the gun too tightly while drawing and aiming. Adrenaline stress + bad trigger discipline = "the gun just went off". You might disagree that DAO firearms are good for avoiding accidental discharge, but it's not an uninformed opinion. I own several firearms, have gone through several firearm safety courses, and have even had my own CCW permit in the past. I don't know how common of an opinion it is, but it's not just something I've made up because I don't know anything about guns.
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  Glocks were designed as military weapons, not target shooting pistols, and are used in the militaries of many nations. Similar pistols (like the XDs) are used in other nations' militaries. I would imagine that combat is about as bad an environment as you can get for adrenaline stress. It sounds like the big problem is shitty training for cops. The problem in NYC has been well-documented by gun experts, it's not the number of people they're trying to shoot. There have been many cases of them shooting at legitimate targets (not black guys running away, not small black children with toys, but real suspects wielding weapons on the street) at hitting bystanders because their shot accuracy is so pathetically bad. A 12-lb trigger pull (specifically designed into Glocks that were never meant to have them, at the insistence of the NYPD because they were used to crappy old revolvers) is a big part of that. If a cop shoots a suspect on the ground, that's just plain murder, I don't care what their excuse is. Bad trigger discipline should be prosecuted as murder: you never put your finger on the trigger unless you've decided to kill the target.
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    >> Glocks were designed as military weapons yeeeeah, definitely not suitable for cops
    - Grishnakh 11y ago
      Um, why not? The stress of actual combat is far more than almost any cop ever goes through, unless he's one of the rare ones involved in an active shooter situation (and even those tend to be over pretty quickly; military combat can go on for hours or days).
      - moron4hire 11y ago
        Because the metric it optimizes for is "successfully hit target", and ignores whether or not the target needed to be hit. NYPD's problem is not heavy trigger pulls. It's trigger happiness to begin with. Police duty is not like TV, it's not battles with drug cartels, even in LA. Police should not in any way resemble soldiers. We should go back to the time when recent military duty was considered a negative when applying for police duty.

jMyles 11y ago

> Only someone who knows nothing about shooting pistols would think that. Come on now. Plenty of the most seasoned experts on earth don't care for the Glock design. DA/SA requires a lot of practice, sure, but it's a great mechanism. Are you saying that there's a known correlation between departments who, say, carry Sigs (the worst in your assessment), vs heavy glocks (second worst) vs. light glocks? I'm aware of no such data. At the end of the day, different people prefer different pistols. I happen to really like the DA/SA of the FNH's and Sig P220.

moron4hire 11y ago

Maybe the problem in NYC isn't accuracy, maybe it's the number of people the NYC cops are trying to shoot. Yes, Glocks make great target shooting pistols. I don't think it's a good gun to be putting into the hands of adrenaline-jacked people on the street. This year alone we've seen several instances of cops having shot suspects already subdued on the ground as well as each other because they are squeezing the gun too tightly while drawing and aiming. Adrenaline stress + bad trigger discipline = "the gun just went off". You might disagree that DAO firearms are good for avoiding accidental discharge, but it's not an uninformed opinion. I own several firearms, have gone through several firearm safety courses, and have even had my own CCW permit in the past. I don't know how common of an opinion it is, but it's not just something I've made up because I don't know anything about guns.

Grishnakh 11y ago
Glocks were designed as military weapons, not target shooting pistols, and are used in the militaries of many nations. Similar pistols (like the XDs) are used in other nations' militaries. I would imagine that combat is about as bad an environment as you can get for adrenaline stress. It sounds like the big problem is shitty training for cops. The problem in NYC has been well-documented by gun experts, it's not the number of people they're trying to shoot. There have been many cases of them shooting at legitimate targets (not black guys running away, not small black children with toys, but real suspects wielding weapons on the street) at hitting bystanders because their shot accuracy is so pathetically bad. A 12-lb trigger pull (specifically designed into Glocks that were never meant to have them, at the insistence of the NYPD because they were used to crappy old revolvers) is a big part of that. If a cop shoots a suspect on the ground, that's just plain murder, I don't care what their excuse is. Bad trigger discipline should be prosecuted as murder: you never put your finger on the trigger unless you've decided to kill the target.
- moron4hire 11y ago
  >> Glocks were designed as military weapons yeeeeah, definitely not suitable for cops
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    Um, why not? The stress of actual combat is far more than almost any cop ever goes through, unless he's one of the rare ones involved in an active shooter situation (and even those tend to be over pretty quickly; military combat can go on for hours or days).
    - moron4hire 11y ago
      Because the metric it optimizes for is "successfully hit target", and ignores whether or not the target needed to be hit. NYPD's problem is not heavy trigger pulls. It's trigger happiness to begin with. Police duty is not like TV, it's not battles with drug cartels, even in LA. Police should not in any way resemble soldiers. We should go back to the time when recent military duty was considered a negative when applying for police duty.