3 ms·

It just amazes me that you could spend your whole life working as a tax panner in a family office, when you aren't even related to that family. An entire career

by seibelj 11y ago

It just amazes me that you could spend your whole life working as a tax panner in a family office, when you aren't even related to that family. An entire career devoted to helping a single super rich family avoid taxes. What a life!

draw_down 11y ago
A lot of us do basically that, it's just less direct, and maybe not an actual family.
- Dwolb 11y ago
  Agreed - but there are a lot of family businesses that do billions in revenue. A few off the top of my head are Cox Enterprises which does 17B in revenue and is owned 99% by the family, SC Johnson which does 11B and my understanding is it's mostly held by the family, and Hallmark which does $3.8B and is held by the family. We also could trace back family shareholders of large corporations who have gone public - Wal-Mart, Ford, etc.
patio11 11y ago
It's a career devoted to helping a very large enterprise with diverse interests comply with a very complicated, fact-intensive, and generally multinational set of regulations in the same manner as every tax professional since Learned Hand: diligently paying the lowest amount consistent with the law. Substantially every business owner you know -- the ones with top line revenues of $100k, $1 million, $10 million, and $100 million -- employ 0.05 to 100+ full-time accountant equivalents for the same purpose. I am on uncomfortably good terms with my friendly local tax office and they're all but begging me "Mr. McKenzie, it will be easier for all of us if you just get a pro to do it for you this time." (Tax agencies essentially delegate surveillance duties to CPAs; a Japanese CPA signing off on my return means the Meguro tax office doesn't have to trouble their heads about how Japanese tax law interacts with an American LLC owned by a Japan-resident American covered by a really complicated treaty.)
- ahh 11y ago
  Why don't you contract to a CPA then? I wouldn't think you'd be opposed to hiring a professional for his specific skills.
  - patio11 11y ago
    I have a really good CPA in the US. I simply have not been able to locate one in Japan yet, because my requirements are rather esoteric: table stakes is "bilingual; you need to know the difference between on-premises and off-premises software or be able to retain a working model of that difference after having it explained to you once; you must be comfortable working in the intersection of Japanese and American tax law; you need to be comfortable doing business over email and Dropbox; please don't charge me $2k per hour as that will eclipse the profits of the business before my taxes get filed." I don't know who best fits these criteria in Tokyo yet but would welcome an introduction. I have a strong suspicion that I was the best qualified person in Gifu. Hence me trudging down to the tax office a few times a year with a notebook, a stack of forms, and a highlighted copy of a National Tax Agency publication with the query "So I've got an odd one for you..."

by seibelj 11y ago

draw_down 11y ago

A lot of us do basically that, it's just less direct, and maybe not an actual family.

Dwolb 11y ago
Agreed - but there are a lot of family businesses that do billions in revenue. A few off the top of my head are Cox Enterprises which does 17B in revenue and is owned 99% by the family, SC Johnson which does 11B and my understanding is it's mostly held by the family, and Hallmark which does $3.8B and is held by the family. We also could trace back family shareholders of large corporations who have gone public - Wal-Mart, Ford, etc.

patio11 11y ago

It's a career devoted to helping a very large enterprise with diverse interests comply with a very complicated, fact-intensive, and generally multinational set of regulations in the same manner as every tax professional since Learned Hand: diligently paying the lowest amount consistent with the law. Substantially every business owner you know -- the ones with top line revenues of $100k, $1 million, $10 million, and $100 million -- employ 0.05 to 100+ full-time accountant equivalents for the same purpose. I am on uncomfortably good terms with my friendly local tax office and they're all but begging me "Mr. McKenzie, it will be easier for all of us if you just get a pro to do it for you this time." (Tax agencies essentially delegate surveillance duties to CPAs; a Japanese CPA signing off on my return means the Meguro tax office doesn't have to trouble their heads about how Japanese tax law interacts with an American LLC owned by a Japan-resident American covered by a really complicated treaty.)

ahh 11y ago
Why don't you contract to a CPA then? I wouldn't think you'd be opposed to hiring a professional for his specific skills.
- patio11 11y ago
  I have a really good CPA in the US. I simply have not been able to locate one in Japan yet, because my requirements are rather esoteric: table stakes is "bilingual; you need to know the difference between on-premises and off-premises software or be able to retain a working model of that difference after having it explained to you once; you must be comfortable working in the intersection of Japanese and American tax law; you need to be comfortable doing business over email and Dropbox; please don't charge me $2k per hour as that will eclipse the profits of the business before my taxes get filed." I don't know who best fits these criteria in Tokyo yet but would welcome an introduction. I have a strong suspicion that I was the best qualified person in Gifu. Hence me trudging down to the tax office a few times a year with a notebook, a stack of forms, and a highlighted copy of a National Tax Agency publication with the query "So I've got an odd one for you..."