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The fact that H1B holders are paid the same as American workers doesn't negate the fact that there is a depressing wage effect. The reality is that this program

The fact that H1B holders are paid the same as American workers doesn't negate the fact that there is a depressing wage effect. The reality is that this program exists so that companies like Google and Microsoft don't have to face the natural law of supply and demand in the job industry. If salaries get too high, they just lobby the congress to increase the number of H1Bs with the excuse that there are not enough "talented" workers (a subjetive term that makes little sense). In a country that valued their citizens, these companies would have to pay higher salaries as the demand increased, and as a result more people would chose this career path, thereby reaching a market equilibrium. If these companies moved jobs overseas, they would be liable for more taxes to offset the job losses, so they would be discouraged to do so. The fact that nobody talks about these simple strategies just shows that companies have done a great job to preach their message to the US government and workers.

NhanH 11y ago
> The reality is that this program exists so that companies like Google and Microsoft don't have to face the natural law of supply and demand in the job industry. The "natural law of supply and demand", specifically, the supply side doesn't magically stop at the border of a country. If anything, protectionism is against the free market ideal. Labor is just another resources like any other, and the extreme version of free market would include free immigration. Yes, a libertarian free market only society might not be in anyone benefits, and any regulation to limit them might have some merit. But we should really call a spade a spade.
- coliveira 11y ago
  That's BS, because this is not a free trade world. The US invests billions of dollars in technology that directly benefits American companies, not French companies, for example. American companies and entire industries (such as agriculture) receive tax breaks that are not available in other parts of the world. Then why only workers have to carry the burden of increased job competition from free trade? Free trade laws don't appear out of thin ether either, it is companies that lobby politicians to create such laws -- while at the same time claiming to the public that they are inevitable. This is a distorted ideology that needs to be opposed, not just observed as if it were good or inevitable.
- brazzledazzle 11y ago
  >The "natural law of supply and demand", specifically, the supply side doesn't magically stop at the border of a country. If anything, protectionism is against the free market ideal. Labor is just another resources like any other, and the extreme version of free market would include free immigration. It seems like you're implying that supply and demand cannot exist without the libertarian free market. Supply and demand can exist in any system even ones constrained by managed economics or artificial restrictions.
bdamm 11y ago
How are companies liable for more taxes if they move jobs overseas? Are you imagining a punishment tax to companies that operate in the US and develop overseas as well? Any such tax would only exacerbate the loss of jobs. A better strategy is to ensure US domination of technology development through any means possible. Besides, it isn't like wages for tech workers are low in the US.
- coliveira 11y ago
  US domination of technology development doesn't mean exporting jobs or importing foreign labor. The US has 300 million people, many of them college educated. There is nothing preventing the US from dominating technology even if it doesn't have an H1B program. Such arguments are so easy disprove, you just need to look how silly they are.
shrewduser 11y ago
you want to be a world beating company you'd better have your talent pool be the world. American tech would be a shell of what it is without foreign labour.
- coliveira 11y ago
  Big fallacy here... The Japanese built a world-class technology industry with local labor. German companies are still best in class using local labor. Israel has a thriving technology industry based on local labor. Why would the US companies be any different from what they are right now? 90%+ of Google/FB/Apple software development is US based. The only real difference is that they would have to pay higher salaries, which doesn't seem to be a big burden, since their owners are multibillionaires -- that is, these companies are clearly not counting pennies to survive.
  - shrewduser 11y ago
    japans tech sector is hardly thriving, are they really your first example? 0% economic growth for 20 years? Israel is nascent and not very comparable, plus they do pull in a lot of global talent, germany also to a much greater extent than japan. also, I'm not saying you can't have a 'viable' industry without importing good talent. I'm just saying it won't be as good.

NhanH 11y ago

> The reality is that this program exists so that companies like Google and Microsoft don't have to face the natural law of supply and demand in the job industry. The "natural law of supply and demand", specifically, the supply side doesn't magically stop at the border of a country. If anything, protectionism is against the free market ideal. Labor is just another resources like any other, and the extreme version of free market would include free immigration. Yes, a libertarian free market only society might not be in anyone benefits, and any regulation to limit them might have some merit. But we should really call a spade a spade.

coliveira 11y ago
That's BS, because this is not a free trade world. The US invests billions of dollars in technology that directly benefits American companies, not French companies, for example. American companies and entire industries (such as agriculture) receive tax breaks that are not available in other parts of the world. Then why only workers have to carry the burden of increased job competition from free trade? Free trade laws don't appear out of thin ether either, it is companies that lobby politicians to create such laws -- while at the same time claiming to the public that they are inevitable. This is a distorted ideology that needs to be opposed, not just observed as if it were good or inevitable.
brazzledazzle 11y ago
>The "natural law of supply and demand", specifically, the supply side doesn't magically stop at the border of a country. If anything, protectionism is against the free market ideal. Labor is just another resources like any other, and the extreme version of free market would include free immigration. It seems like you're implying that supply and demand cannot exist without the libertarian free market. Supply and demand can exist in any system even ones constrained by managed economics or artificial restrictions.

bdamm 11y ago

How are companies liable for more taxes if they move jobs overseas? Are you imagining a punishment tax to companies that operate in the US and develop overseas as well? Any such tax would only exacerbate the loss of jobs. A better strategy is to ensure US domination of technology development through any means possible. Besides, it isn't like wages for tech workers are low in the US.

coliveira 11y ago
US domination of technology development doesn't mean exporting jobs or importing foreign labor. The US has 300 million people, many of them college educated. There is nothing preventing the US from dominating technology even if it doesn't have an H1B program. Such arguments are so easy disprove, you just need to look how silly they are.

shrewduser 11y ago

you want to be a world beating company you'd better have your talent pool be the world. American tech would be a shell of what it is without foreign labour.

coliveira 11y ago
Big fallacy here... The Japanese built a world-class technology industry with local labor. German companies are still best in class using local labor. Israel has a thriving technology industry based on local labor. Why would the US companies be any different from what they are right now? 90%+ of Google/FB/Apple software development is US based. The only real difference is that they would have to pay higher salaries, which doesn't seem to be a big burden, since their owners are multibillionaires -- that is, these companies are clearly not counting pennies to survive.
- shrewduser 11y ago
  japans tech sector is hardly thriving, are they really your first example? 0% economic growth for 20 years? Israel is nascent and not very comparable, plus they do pull in a lot of global talent, germany also to a much greater extent than japan. also, I'm not saying you can't have a 'viable' industry without importing good talent. I'm just saying it won't be as good.