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You are absolutely spot on. However, to pick a quick nit: > the glocks they're purchasing for their officers have a tendency to fire even when the safety is o

by jMyles 11y ago

You are absolutely spot on. However, to pick a quick nit: > the glocks they're purchasing for their officers have a tendency to fire even when the safety is on? Glocks don't have a safety that goes "on" and prevents them from firing. If you pull the trigger (which has a little mini trigger in it which must also be pulled - the only actual safety), it will fire. Even cops who don't carry glocks rarely carry weapons that have a safety that works in the way you suggest; instead, most LEO duty weapons simply have a heavy trigger pull.

eric_h 11y ago
Thanks for picking that nit, I wasn't aware of that. I can count the number of handguns I've fired in my life on one finger (and it was a PPK). I believe the analogy on the whole is still roughly valid, just s/when the safety is on/without pulling the trigger/
moron4hire 11y ago
Yeah, double-action-only should be the default for all handguns short of crazy .22LR target pistols.
- beachstartup 11y ago
  a glock isn't double action. if the striker isn't in firing position (done by racking the slide when you first insert the magazine), it won't fire no matter how many times you pull the trigger. the slide locks back after firing the last round, so that it only readies the striker when you insert a new magazine and release the slide.
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    Yes, I know how a Glock works, and I think it's a bad design.
    - Grishnakh 11y ago
      Only someone who knows nothing about shooting pistols would think that. How on earth is it a bad design? A normal Glock with its single-action mechanism is pretty close to the best handgun design there is now. A double-action-only (DAO) design suffers from heavy trigger pulls, which cause terrible shot accuracy. Look at the NYPD and how many innocent bystanders they shoot because of their 12-lb trigger pulls. DA/SA are even worse because the first shot is double-action, so it's inconsistent. Both these designs should be banned from law enforcement use because of public safety. The only thing wrong with Glocks is they only have the trigger safety, and no external safety (like the grip safety on Springfield XD pistols), so they misfire if you're clumsy when reholstering and something gets into the trigger guard, and this has caused a bunch of cops to shoot themselves in the foot or leg.
      - jMyles 11y ago
        > Only someone who knows nothing about shooting pistols would think that. Come on now. Plenty of the most seasoned experts on earth don't care for the Glock design. DA/SA requires a lot of practice, sure, but it's a great mechanism. Are you saying that there's a known correlation between departments who, say, carry Sigs (the worst in your assessment), vs heavy glocks (second worst) vs. light glocks? I'm aware of no such data. At the end of the day, different people prefer different pistols. I happen to really like the DA/SA of the FNH's and Sig P220.
      - moron4hire 11y ago
        Maybe the problem in NYC isn't accuracy, maybe it's the number of people the NYC cops are trying to shoot. Yes, Glocks make great target shooting pistols. I don't think it's a good gun to be putting into the hands of adrenaline-jacked people on the street. This year alone we've seen several instances of cops having shot suspects already subdued on the ground as well as each other because they are squeezing the gun too tightly while drawing and aiming. Adrenaline stress + bad trigger discipline = "the gun just went off". You might disagree that DAO firearms are good for avoiding accidental discharge, but it's not an uninformed opinion. I own several firearms, have gone through several firearm safety courses, and have even had my own CCW permit in the past. I don't know how common of an opinion it is, but it's not just something I've made up because I don't know anything about guns.
- koenigdavidmj 11y ago
  DAO (and equivalent) are problematic though. Exposed hammers should be there. NYPD issues Glocks with custom 12 lb triggers (regular is about 5), and their cops have a bit of a problem hitting what they're pointing at as a result.
- PhantomGremlin 11y ago
  double-action-only should be the default But then, as another response to you mentioned, it's hard to hit what you're aiming at. What's your objection to "traditional double-action",[1] aka double-action/single-action? At least that way, it's easier to control subsequent shots, while still requiring double-action for the first shot. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_%28firearms%29#Double-action.2Fsingle-action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_%28firearms%29#Double-...
beachstartup 11y ago
to add: the safety on a glock is to prevent impacts and vibration from firing the gun. the gun is designed to shoot only when you pull the trigger, but to shoot FOR SURE when you pull the trigger, until the magazine is empty.
- flumpmastet 11y ago
  To clarify: most Glock pistols are semi automatic including LEO side arms and will only empty the magazine if the trigger is pulled repeatedly.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - cma 11y ago
    Whoa whoa, the magazine will only be emptied in that scenario if the rounds aren't dummy rounds.

by jMyles 11y ago

eric_h 11y ago

Thanks for picking that nit, I wasn't aware of that. I can count the number of handguns I've fired in my life on one finger (and it was a PPK). I believe the analogy on the whole is still roughly valid, just s/when the safety is on/without pulling the trigger/

moron4hire 11y ago

Yeah, double-action-only should be the default for all handguns short of crazy .22LR target pistols.

beachstartup 11y ago
a glock isn't double action. if the striker isn't in firing position (done by racking the slide when you first insert the magazine), it won't fire no matter how many times you pull the trigger. the slide locks back after firing the last round, so that it only readies the striker when you insert a new magazine and release the slide.
- moron4hire 11y ago
  Yes, I know how a Glock works, and I think it's a bad design.
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    Only someone who knows nothing about shooting pistols would think that. How on earth is it a bad design? A normal Glock with its single-action mechanism is pretty close to the best handgun design there is now. A double-action-only (DAO) design suffers from heavy trigger pulls, which cause terrible shot accuracy. Look at the NYPD and how many innocent bystanders they shoot because of their 12-lb trigger pulls. DA/SA are even worse because the first shot is double-action, so it's inconsistent. Both these designs should be banned from law enforcement use because of public safety. The only thing wrong with Glocks is they only have the trigger safety, and no external safety (like the grip safety on Springfield XD pistols), so they misfire if you're clumsy when reholstering and something gets into the trigger guard, and this has caused a bunch of cops to shoot themselves in the foot or leg.
    - jMyles 11y ago
      > Only someone who knows nothing about shooting pistols would think that. Come on now. Plenty of the most seasoned experts on earth don't care for the Glock design. DA/SA requires a lot of practice, sure, but it's a great mechanism. Are you saying that there's a known correlation between departments who, say, carry Sigs (the worst in your assessment), vs heavy glocks (second worst) vs. light glocks? I'm aware of no such data. At the end of the day, different people prefer different pistols. I happen to really like the DA/SA of the FNH's and Sig P220.
    - moron4hire 11y ago
      Maybe the problem in NYC isn't accuracy, maybe it's the number of people the NYC cops are trying to shoot. Yes, Glocks make great target shooting pistols. I don't think it's a good gun to be putting into the hands of adrenaline-jacked people on the street. This year alone we've seen several instances of cops having shot suspects already subdued on the ground as well as each other because they are squeezing the gun too tightly while drawing and aiming. Adrenaline stress + bad trigger discipline = "the gun just went off". You might disagree that DAO firearms are good for avoiding accidental discharge, but it's not an uninformed opinion. I own several firearms, have gone through several firearm safety courses, and have even had my own CCW permit in the past. I don't know how common of an opinion it is, but it's not just something I've made up because I don't know anything about guns.
koenigdavidmj 11y ago
DAO (and equivalent) are problematic though. Exposed hammers should be there. NYPD issues Glocks with custom 12 lb triggers (regular is about 5), and their cops have a bit of a problem hitting what they're pointing at as a result.
PhantomGremlin 11y ago
double-action-only should be the default But then, as another response to you mentioned, it's hard to hit what you're aiming at. What's your objection to "traditional double-action",[1] aka double-action/single-action? At least that way, it's easier to control subsequent shots, while still requiring double-action for the first shot. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_%28firearms%29#Double-action.2Fsingle-action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_%28firearms%29#Double-...

beachstartup 11y ago

to add: the safety on a glock is to prevent impacts and vibration from firing the gun. the gun is designed to shoot only when you pull the trigger, but to shoot FOR SURE when you pull the trigger, until the magazine is empty.

flumpmastet 11y ago
To clarify: most Glock pistols are semi automatic including LEO side arms and will only empty the magazine if the trigger is pulled repeatedly.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- cma 11y ago
  Whoa whoa, the magazine will only be emptied in that scenario if the rounds aren't dummy rounds.