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According to these reports, starting salaries for CS graduates are about 4% lower in 2015[0] than in 2014[1]. The recent OPT moves by DHS is proof enough the g

According to these reports, starting salaries for CS graduates are about 4% lower in 2015[0] than in 2014[1]. The recent OPT moves by DHS is proof enough the government is all too willing to help employers in any way possible and isn't interested in actually helping citizens and green card holders fill these jobs. [0] https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/downloads/executive-summary/2015-fall-salary-survey-executive-summary.pdf https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/... [1] https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/downloads/executive-summary/2014-september-salary-survey-executive-summary.pdf https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/...

npalli 11y ago
For CS graduates, I see the 2014 Salary as $62,103 and the 2015 Salary as $65,004. Which is actually a 6% increase. The 2014 was a 6% increase over 2013. So more than 10% increase in two years. What are you seeing?
- ones_and_zeros 11y ago
  I'm comparing computer science majors, which is the majority (80% in 2015) of those in the computer science category. I think this removes outliers like someone getting a bachelors in computer science with a major in financial engineering at Cornell making 200k on Wall Street after graduation. 2014 67,500. 2015 65,004. Down about 3.7%, which adds up over time. Either way, from my point of view, the software "profession" is dead in the water unless real change in the industry and our government happens.
  - npalli 11y ago
    Well, even in that case, the 2014 salary was a 6.4% raise over 2013. Unusually large increase. So, it certainly "didn't add up over time". Also, strange to read about software profession being dead in water. Pretty much all estimates from BLS show it to be the fastest growing job segment. Which fields (apart from healthcare) are doing better that software?
    - no_wave 11y ago
      Software is the fastest growing field, but when you factor in 1.5% and 1.6% inflation in 2013 and 2014 (and use the salary numbers discussed in this thread), you get a real decrease of 1% between 2013 and 2015. So you're getting a salary decrease for the fastest growing profession in the US - a terrible sign. Why shouldn't salary be allowed to increase, especially when rents rose 27% in San Francisco?
      - dragonwriter 11y ago
        > Why shouldn't salary be allowed to naturally increase Because cost of labor (including salaries) compete with returns on capital, and, well, people who favor "capitalism" rather than, say, "laborism" tend to hold political (as a consequence of economic) power.
  - eli_gottlieb 11y ago
    Market prices for anything are a random walk in the short-term. Let's look at some longer trends if we want to draw sound conclusions.
    - cplease 11y ago
      Salaries are not a random walk in the short term. A dip is significant.
secondtimeuse 11y ago
Actually there was a 6% increase in salary between 2013 and 2014. And the "data" for 2015 is derived from mere 705 "# of Salaries". There aren't any new recent moves by DHS regarding "OPTs". The proposed change in "STEM Extension", won't come into affect at least until mid 2016.
- ones_and_zeros 11y ago
  I compared 2014 to 2015. In regard to DHS, the US court system found that DHS unlawfully created the rules for OPT in 2008 in backroom deals with industry lobbyists. When the court told them so, the DHS went in to "all hands on deck" mode to come up with a work around. (So far they've failed, putting ~130k OPT guest workers at risk of having to leave the country on Feb 12th 2016). Besides the question of what is DHS doing involving itself in student training programs and guest worker visas, but the other question is why wasn't what happened at Disney an "all hands on deck" situation? Where is the support for the citizens?
  - secondtimeuse 11y ago
    There are 62,000+ degrees in Computer Science alone awarded every year. With sample size 705 you are showing a decrease of 6% then p < 0.5. Further OPT program was established long before the "STEM Extension" came into effect during 2008. Finally in spite of STEM extension in place, the Software Developer jobs as well as salaries have recorded solid growth during 2008 - Now. Just because you became aware of the STEM program due to a judgement on a minor procedural issue, does not invalidates the robust job and salary growth over the last 7 years enjoyed by the profession. You are simply trying to map your flawed beliefs and sensational news reports to justify non existent decline. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/10/03/the-10-jobs-with-the-biggest-salary-gains-in-2014/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/10/03/the-10-job...
  - shams93 11y ago
    Yeah we had major recent fire all the tech staff events both with Disney as well as a major utility company in CA.
forrestthewoods 11y ago
I'm pretty sure starting salaries at big companies are strictly increasing. There is just a larger increase in the number of lower paying jobs. Which may simply mean more CS job opportunities in more cities that have a lower cost of living then the previous average. Finding truth in numbers is hard.

npalli 11y ago

For CS graduates, I see the 2014 Salary as $62,103 and the 2015 Salary as $65,004. Which is actually a 6% increase. The 2014 was a 6% increase over 2013. So more than 10% increase in two years. What are you seeing?

ones_and_zeros 11y ago
I'm comparing computer science majors, which is the majority (80% in 2015) of those in the computer science category. I think this removes outliers like someone getting a bachelors in computer science with a major in financial engineering at Cornell making 200k on Wall Street after graduation. 2014 67,500. 2015 65,004. Down about 3.7%, which adds up over time. Either way, from my point of view, the software "profession" is dead in the water unless real change in the industry and our government happens.
- npalli 11y ago
  Well, even in that case, the 2014 salary was a 6.4% raise over 2013. Unusually large increase. So, it certainly "didn't add up over time". Also, strange to read about software profession being dead in water. Pretty much all estimates from BLS show it to be the fastest growing job segment. Which fields (apart from healthcare) are doing better that software?
  - no_wave 11y ago
    Software is the fastest growing field, but when you factor in 1.5% and 1.6% inflation in 2013 and 2014 (and use the salary numbers discussed in this thread), you get a real decrease of 1% between 2013 and 2015. So you're getting a salary decrease for the fastest growing profession in the US - a terrible sign. Why shouldn't salary be allowed to increase, especially when rents rose 27% in San Francisco?
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > Why shouldn't salary be allowed to naturally increase Because cost of labor (including salaries) compete with returns on capital, and, well, people who favor "capitalism" rather than, say, "laborism" tend to hold political (as a consequence of economic) power.
- eli_gottlieb 11y ago
  Market prices for anything are a random walk in the short-term. Let's look at some longer trends if we want to draw sound conclusions.
  - cplease 11y ago
    Salaries are not a random walk in the short term. A dip is significant.

secondtimeuse 11y ago

Actually there was a 6% increase in salary between 2013 and 2014. And the "data" for 2015 is derived from mere 705 "# of Salaries". There aren't any new recent moves by DHS regarding "OPTs". The proposed change in "STEM Extension", won't come into affect at least until mid 2016.

ones_and_zeros 11y ago
I compared 2014 to 2015. In regard to DHS, the US court system found that DHS unlawfully created the rules for OPT in 2008 in backroom deals with industry lobbyists. When the court told them so, the DHS went in to "all hands on deck" mode to come up with a work around. (So far they've failed, putting ~130k OPT guest workers at risk of having to leave the country on Feb 12th 2016). Besides the question of what is DHS doing involving itself in student training programs and guest worker visas, but the other question is why wasn't what happened at Disney an "all hands on deck" situation? Where is the support for the citizens?
- secondtimeuse 11y ago
  There are 62,000+ degrees in Computer Science alone awarded every year. With sample size 705 you are showing a decrease of 6% then p < 0.5. Further OPT program was established long before the "STEM Extension" came into effect during 2008. Finally in spite of STEM extension in place, the Software Developer jobs as well as salaries have recorded solid growth during 2008 - Now. Just because you became aware of the STEM program due to a judgement on a minor procedural issue, does not invalidates the robust job and salary growth over the last 7 years enjoyed by the profession. You are simply trying to map your flawed beliefs and sensational news reports to justify non existent decline. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/10/03/the-10-jobs-with-the-biggest-salary-gains-in-2014/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/10/03/the-10-job...
- shams93 11y ago
  Yeah we had major recent fire all the tech staff events both with Disney as well as a major utility company in CA.

forrestthewoods 11y ago

I'm pretty sure starting salaries at big companies are strictly increasing. There is just a larger increase in the number of lower paying jobs. Which may simply mean more CS job opportunities in more cities that have a lower cost of living then the previous average. Finding truth in numbers is hard.