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To pre-empt anticipated comments Job Outlook "Growth" is change in number of people employed: From the source here are the numbers for other disciplines. Softw

To pre-empt anticipated comments Job Outlook "Growth" is change in number of people employed: From the source here are the numbers for other disciplines. Software Developer Job Outlook, 2014-24 17% (Much faster than average) http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/s... Computer Hardware Engineers Job Outlook, 2014-24 3% http://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/computer-hardware-engineers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/computer... Database Administrators Job Outlook, 2014-24 11% (Faster than average) http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/database-administrators.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/d... statisticians Job Outlook, 2014-24 34% (Much faster than average) http://www.bls.gov/ooh/math/statisticians.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/math/statisticians.htm computer-and-information-systems-managers Job Outlook, 2014-24 15% (Much faster than average http://www.bls.gov/ooh/management/computer-and-information-systems-managers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/management/computer-and-information-s... Yet the article conveniently uses cherry picked data for arguing against H1B. The majority of the H1B are being awarded for above categories and not for electrical engineering. The simple explanation is that it's cheaper to manufacture components in Taiwan, Korea and China. H1B is not causing electrical engineers to lose jobs, it's the fundamental economics of production that are stacked against the occupation.

revelation 11y ago
What's the connection between electrical engineering and cheap soldering in China? That's like saying it's cheaper to hire Chinese to type into a keyboard, so programmers are no longer in demand.
- secondtimeuse 11y ago
  If you think hon hai precision industry co. ltd (aka foxconn) is merely doing "soldering" in China you ought to catch up with the market reality. Almost everyone I know who is employed at Apple (in California) with electrical engineering degree, goes on multi-month annual visits to Chinese plants.
  - revelation 11y ago
    You still haven't clarified this. Are they going there to supervise the manufacturing process or to learn from their peers? Is Foxconn doing EE design for Apple?
    - secondtimeuse 11y ago
      Apple recently opened a new R&D center in Taiwan. Which shows that not only production but also research and development can move / will eventually move to other countries. http://www.macrumors.com/2015/12/16/apple-taiwan-factory-oled-micro-led-tech/ http://www.macrumors.com/2015/12/16/apple-taiwan-factory-ole...
- throawayalwayz 11y ago
  OP never mentioned cheap soldering - where did you get that from? The issue (as I understand it) is that the design and manufacture of most electrical components is happening offshore. The biggest fab in the world is in Taiwan. We aren't talking about cheap soldering, we are talking about the semiconductor work that drives most hardware. We are starting to see a few hardware startups but most of the jobs created are still overseas as manufacturing happens abroad. Most of the EEs I know switched into CS fields because of reasons like this. I wonder where the future of EE lies.
  - revelation 11y ago
    OP said 'cheaper to manufacture'.
    - throawayalwayz 11y ago
      Cheaper to manufacture means something completely different from soldering. That's a huge and nonsensical leap you make there. Soldering isn't even the largest cost associated with electronics and semiconductor manufacturing.
ones_and_zeros 11y ago
According to these reports, starting salaries for CS graduates are about 4% lower in 2015[0] than in 2014[1]. The recent OPT moves by DHS is proof enough the government is all too willing to help employers in any way possible and isn't interested in actually helping citizens and green card holders fill these jobs. [0] https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/downloads/executive-summary/2015-fall-salary-survey-executive-summary.pdf https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/... [1] https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/downloads/executive-summary/2014-september-salary-survey-executive-summary.pdf https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/...
- npalli 11y ago
  For CS graduates, I see the 2014 Salary as $62,103 and the 2015 Salary as $65,004. Which is actually a 6% increase. The 2014 was a 6% increase over 2013. So more than 10% increase in two years. What are you seeing?
  - ones_and_zeros 11y ago
    I'm comparing computer science majors, which is the majority (80% in 2015) of those in the computer science category. I think this removes outliers like someone getting a bachelors in computer science with a major in financial engineering at Cornell making 200k on Wall Street after graduation. 2014 67,500. 2015 65,004. Down about 3.7%, which adds up over time. Either way, from my point of view, the software "profession" is dead in the water unless real change in the industry and our government happens.
    - npalli 11y ago
      Well, even in that case, the 2014 salary was a 6.4% raise over 2013. Unusually large increase. So, it certainly "didn't add up over time". Also, strange to read about software profession being dead in water. Pretty much all estimates from BLS show it to be the fastest growing job segment. Which fields (apart from healthcare) are doing better that software?
throawayalwayz 11y ago
You can see the general trends in this article: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/occupational-employment-projections-to-2022.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/occupational-employ... One disturbing finding - in the higher income areas, the only areas with strong growth are in healthcare and tech/CS. Almost nothing outside of that.

revelation 11y ago

What's the connection between electrical engineering and cheap soldering in China? That's like saying it's cheaper to hire Chinese to type into a keyboard, so programmers are no longer in demand.

secondtimeuse 11y ago
If you think hon hai precision industry co. ltd (aka foxconn) is merely doing "soldering" in China you ought to catch up with the market reality. Almost everyone I know who is employed at Apple (in California) with electrical engineering degree, goes on multi-month annual visits to Chinese plants.
- revelation 11y ago
  You still haven't clarified this. Are they going there to supervise the manufacturing process or to learn from their peers? Is Foxconn doing EE design for Apple?
  - secondtimeuse 11y ago
    Apple recently opened a new R&D center in Taiwan. Which shows that not only production but also research and development can move / will eventually move to other countries. http://www.macrumors.com/2015/12/16/apple-taiwan-factory-oled-micro-led-tech/ http://www.macrumors.com/2015/12/16/apple-taiwan-factory-ole...
throawayalwayz 11y ago
OP never mentioned cheap soldering - where did you get that from? The issue (as I understand it) is that the design and manufacture of most electrical components is happening offshore. The biggest fab in the world is in Taiwan. We aren't talking about cheap soldering, we are talking about the semiconductor work that drives most hardware. We are starting to see a few hardware startups but most of the jobs created are still overseas as manufacturing happens abroad. Most of the EEs I know switched into CS fields because of reasons like this. I wonder where the future of EE lies.
- revelation 11y ago
  OP said 'cheaper to manufacture'.
  - throawayalwayz 11y ago
    Cheaper to manufacture means something completely different from soldering. That's a huge and nonsensical leap you make there. Soldering isn't even the largest cost associated with electronics and semiconductor manufacturing.

ones_and_zeros 11y ago

According to these reports, starting salaries for CS graduates are about 4% lower in 2015[0] than in 2014[1]. The recent OPT moves by DHS is proof enough the government is all too willing to help employers in any way possible and isn't interested in actually helping citizens and green card holders fill these jobs. [0] https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/downloads/executive-summary/2015-fall-salary-survey-executive-summary.pdf https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/... [1] https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/downloads/executive-summary/2014-september-salary-survey-executive-summary.pdf https://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/Content/static-assets/...

npalli 11y ago
For CS graduates, I see the 2014 Salary as $62,103 and the 2015 Salary as $65,004. Which is actually a 6% increase. The 2014 was a 6% increase over 2013. So more than 10% increase in two years. What are you seeing?
- ones_and_zeros 11y ago
  I'm comparing computer science majors, which is the majority (80% in 2015) of those in the computer science category. I think this removes outliers like someone getting a bachelors in computer science with a major in financial engineering at Cornell making 200k on Wall Street after graduation. 2014 67,500. 2015 65,004. Down about 3.7%, which adds up over time. Either way, from my point of view, the software "profession" is dead in the water unless real change in the industry and our government happens.
  - npalli 11y ago
    Well, even in that case, the 2014 salary was a 6.4% raise over 2013. Unusually large increase. So, it certainly "didn't add up over time". Also, strange to read about software profession being dead in water. Pretty much all estimates from BLS show it to be the fastest growing job segment. Which fields (apart from healthcare) are doing better that software?

throawayalwayz 11y ago

You can see the general trends in this article: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/occupational-employment-projections-to-2022.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/occupational-employ... One disturbing finding - in the higher income areas, the only areas with strong growth are in healthcare and tech/CS. Almost nothing outside of that.