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While the GP's offhanded connecting of the dots between a slave ship and African-Americans might be unnecessary, implying that the plight of minorities in the U

by rmxt 11y ago

While the GP's offhanded connecting of the dots between a slave ship and African-Americans might be unnecessary, implying that the plight of minorities in the United States stems solely from their personal failings is no less simplistic or naive than the original statement. Socioeconomic status and race are a whole lot more complicated than "minorities need to work harder", which is what "personal failings" typically translates to. Entrenched poverty and the effects of legalized second-class citizenship don't simply disappear in 60-70 years.

cmdrfred 11y ago
That is not what I meant. Of course racists exist in modern society. I had a few African American roommates years ago. They would espouse beliefs that the slave trade is the reason they were in the position they were in financially. They were all enrolled in college, did not work and everything was paid for by their parents. I was washing dishes and going hungry. Now I own a house and was told by one of them it was due to my 'white privilege'. It's utter bullshit. Poverty is the problem, racism is the smokescreen the powerful hide behind while they run off with all the money.
- rmxt 11y ago
  The concept of "privilege" can both exist and have been misconstrued and misapplied to your case by your friends. Also, slavery and Jim Crow can both leave an unfortunate legacy of poverty amongst many African-Americans, and not have prevented your roommates from getting into and affording college. You seem to be saying that since you had black roommates in college (and they could afford it), while you (presumably non-black) endured through strife, discussing racism today is BS. I am not sure how that follows. If poverty is the problem to be solved, where do you believe the poverty problem comes from? Why is the concept of racism a smokescreen? I can't say that I've seen many people decrying the legacy of institutionalized racism making millions off of that rhetoric. Do you have particular examples in mind?
  - cmdrfred 11y ago
    The poverty problem in the united states mostly stems from the fact that the income distribution is insanely screwed and politicians are bought too easily by corporations. It has very little to do with racism. If racism were the cause appalachia would be the garden of Eden.
    - rmxt 11y ago
      You are drawing false conclusions up and down this thread. Both of the following can be (and are) true: Appalachia is a nexus of white poverty (and industrial decay), and institutionalized racism has lingering effects through the present day. The fact that racism existed (and continues to exist in some ways) does not preclude white people from ever being poor. Just like how your roommates' forefathers may have been discriminated against, but their parents managed to pay for their college. At the same time, your forefathers may not have been discriminated against, but you did not end up with a nest egg to work from. Local exceptions do not mean that systemic issues can be dismissed offhandedly. While the income distribution may be screwed, in part, because "politicians are bought too easily by corporations", how one could deny that institutionalized racism in the past has lingering effects on socioeconomic status for members of particular races into the present day is beyond me. You are pointing out real issues, but none of these issues mean that racism doesn't (or didn't) exist. EDIT: Also, where are those people that make millions off of the discussion of racism? (Do you perhaps have Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson in mind?) Even if there are some small number of people whose brand personally benefits from discussing racism, their existence does not erase the socioeconomic disparity between races (today) that stems, in part, from institutionalized racism of the past.
      - cmdrfred 11y ago
        Who profits from racism? A single example. Call it "Black lives matter" and a small segment of the population gets involved. Call it "Human lives matter" and the entire population gets involved and demands police reform. In this example what do you think the owners of for profit prisons (the ruling class) prefer? What narrative do you think the media they control will parrot?
raleec 11y ago
60-70 years? Redlining[0], and it's spiritual offspring, continue through the present day[1]! 0 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining 1 : http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/cfpb-and-doj-order-hudson-city-savings-bank-to-pay-27-million-to-increase-mortgage-credit-access-in-communities-illegally-redlined/ http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/cfpb-and-doj-order-h...
- rmxt 11y ago
  I use 60-70 years as a conservative number, so that even the most fervent believers of "it's not because they are black, it's because they are poor" (or similar opinions) can see that people still alive today were likely legally discriminated against based on the color of their skin in ways that most people take for granted. I would agree that things like redlining and discretionary funding appropriations are still an issue worth discussing today.

by rmxt 11y ago

cmdrfred 11y ago

That is not what I meant. Of course racists exist in modern society. I had a few African American roommates years ago. They would espouse beliefs that the slave trade is the reason they were in the position they were in financially. They were all enrolled in college, did not work and everything was paid for by their parents. I was washing dishes and going hungry. Now I own a house and was told by one of them it was due to my 'white privilege'. It's utter bullshit. Poverty is the problem, racism is the smokescreen the powerful hide behind while they run off with all the money.

rmxt 11y ago
The concept of "privilege" can both exist and have been misconstrued and misapplied to your case by your friends. Also, slavery and Jim Crow can both leave an unfortunate legacy of poverty amongst many African-Americans, and not have prevented your roommates from getting into and affording college. You seem to be saying that since you had black roommates in college (and they could afford it), while you (presumably non-black) endured through strife, discussing racism today is BS. I am not sure how that follows. If poverty is the problem to be solved, where do you believe the poverty problem comes from? Why is the concept of racism a smokescreen? I can't say that I've seen many people decrying the legacy of institutionalized racism making millions off of that rhetoric. Do you have particular examples in mind?
- cmdrfred 11y ago
  The poverty problem in the united states mostly stems from the fact that the income distribution is insanely screwed and politicians are bought too easily by corporations. It has very little to do with racism. If racism were the cause appalachia would be the garden of Eden.
  - rmxt 11y ago
    You are drawing false conclusions up and down this thread. Both of the following can be (and are) true: Appalachia is a nexus of white poverty (and industrial decay), and institutionalized racism has lingering effects through the present day. The fact that racism existed (and continues to exist in some ways) does not preclude white people from ever being poor. Just like how your roommates' forefathers may have been discriminated against, but their parents managed to pay for their college. At the same time, your forefathers may not have been discriminated against, but you did not end up with a nest egg to work from. Local exceptions do not mean that systemic issues can be dismissed offhandedly. While the income distribution may be screwed, in part, because "politicians are bought too easily by corporations", how one could deny that institutionalized racism in the past has lingering effects on socioeconomic status for members of particular races into the present day is beyond me. You are pointing out real issues, but none of these issues mean that racism doesn't (or didn't) exist. EDIT: Also, where are those people that make millions off of the discussion of racism? (Do you perhaps have Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson in mind?) Even if there are some small number of people whose brand personally benefits from discussing racism, their existence does not erase the socioeconomic disparity between races (today) that stems, in part, from institutionalized racism of the past.
    - cmdrfred 11y ago
      Who profits from racism? A single example. Call it "Black lives matter" and a small segment of the population gets involved. Call it "Human lives matter" and the entire population gets involved and demands police reform. In this example what do you think the owners of for profit prisons (the ruling class) prefer? What narrative do you think the media they control will parrot?

raleec 11y ago

60-70 years? Redlining[0], and it's spiritual offspring, continue through the present day[1]! 0 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining 1 : http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/cfpb-and-doj-order-hudson-city-savings-bank-to-pay-27-million-to-increase-mortgage-credit-access-in-communities-illegally-redlined/ http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/cfpb-and-doj-order-h...

rmxt 11y ago
I use 60-70 years as a conservative number, so that even the most fervent believers of "it's not because they are black, it's because they are poor" (or similar opinions) can see that people still alive today were likely legally discriminated against based on the color of their skin in ways that most people take for granted. I would agree that things like redlining and discretionary funding appropriations are still an issue worth discussing today.