7 ms·

It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Just don't use a Microsoft account. Just chose custom configurations during setup. Doesn't a defau

It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Just don't use a Microsoft account. Just chose custom configurations during setup. Doesn't a default Android phone also do a lot of calling home? And Apple phones? Why is it so special when it's Windows?

frik 11y ago
> It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Not true at all! It's impossible, without a hardware firewall. Their kernel network driver whitelists several microsoft domains and IP address ranges. What's worse Microsoft back-ported that phone-home crap and ships them as updates to Windows 7 and 8.x (of course the coincidentally stopped writting descriptions for their Windows updates). Not even mentioning how they force end users to upgrade to Windows 10 by displaying Windows 10 ads as popup dialogs and renaming Windows update buttons to click on the Upgrade button by accident, etc. It will hurt Microsoft's reputation a lot. With Android and iOS an end user with a little bit of knowledge (power user) can deactivate the analytics, cloud sync and error reporting "features" by changing a handful of settings. Windows 10 resets the privacy settings every major update (Threshold 2), they go even as far as change the name of exe files and registry keys. It's not too late to fix Win10 and MS reputation though, do something in 2016.
- lstamour 11y ago
  It can be turned off in version 1511 for Enterprise and Education editions, under Group Policy: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85).aspx https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85... See screenshot and guide at http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/30/windows-10-and-privacy/ http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/30/windows-10-and-privacy/ Alternatively, disable this service if concerned: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetry/ http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetr...
  - criddell 11y ago
    I asked at the Microsoft store for an Enterprise edition of Windows and they told me it's not sold to consumers (they tried to tell me I want Windows 10 Professional). I'm not a student or a teacher, so I don't think I can buy the education edition either.
    - lstamour 11y ago
      You need 250+ users for Software Assurance through Enterprise Licensing programs: http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/F/5/1F5357DD-F7C8-4CC8-8C5F-7F6B1569ECF0/Transactional_Licensing_Comparison_Chart.pdf http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/F/5/1F5357DD-F7C8-4... However, through the MOSP (for 5-250, now called "Microsoft Online Services"), you can get Windows Intune with Software Assurance for Windows for $11/user (at least when it was announced), which includes Software Assurance, which then includes a copy of Windows 10 Enterprise (to upgrade/install on PCs for licensed users) as well as management tools. There's a way to add Office 365 on a per-user basis to your Intune subscription as well, as long as you maintain annual commitments (or some gibberish like that). I'm not entirely clear on the details, this is why Microsoft usually has folks call in for pricing and such. But I hear it's easy to manage. There's two methods of enterprise/education licensing, per user and per machine. Home/Pro are sold per-machine only, with varying features. See license agreements for details ;-) Ultimately, you can disable most/all of the Windows 10 spying yourself without special editions of Windows, they just make it easier for folks paying the big bucks.
      - yuhong 11y ago
        You can buy Win10 Enterprise with Software Assurance through Open Licence just fine too (and even the renewal isn't that expensive). More precisely, what it gains you is access to the "Security" telemetry level.
  - frik 11y ago
    All can be turned off in Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) - it's very expensive and not sold to consumer nor small business at all. But think about your doctor, your lawyer, etc. many smaller business, cheaper Windows 10 editon (non LTSB) they will unintentionally leak your confidential personal data. You say such PCs shouldn't be online at all? But they are and many of them run on Windows. Scary.
    - Silhouette 11y ago
      You say [doctors', lawyers' and many smaller businesses'] PCs shouldn't be online at all? But they are and many of them run on Windows. Scary. And almost certainly very illegal in a lot of places. Not only do you have whatever routine data protection rules apply, but in cases like medical data or legally privileged information there are higher standards required in many jurisdictions as well.
      - bashinator 11y ago
        I work for a company that has to maintain HIPAA compliance, and we're all utterly horrified by Win10.
    - lstamour 11y ago
      Technically the bit about it not being sold to small business is not true. You can get LTSB through Software Assurance through Windows Intune licensing on a per-user basis through Microsoft Online Services for companies of 5-250 people. And you don't need LTSB or Enterprise/Education SKUs to turn them off, you just get more convenient toggles there. Ultimately you're responsible for what services run on your computer, and your computer's configuration. If you don't trust the OS manufacturer, as someone else pointed out, why are you running their code in the first place? ;-)
      - geofft 11y ago
        Because you have external requirements (the software you need to run only supports Windows, there aren't any outsourced IT providers in your area that know how to manage any other OSes, regulators will be confused, etc.) that demand you run the OS regardless of whether you trust it. Or because you don't trust any of the other options either, which is an entirely reasonable stance.
  - sroerick 11y ago
    Why isn't this a feature that consumers can have? The line I always hear from Microsoft apologists is that "You can turn these features off at any time", but everything I've seen suggests this is only true for Enterprise and Education.
    - lstamour 11y ago
      Because the point of modern Internet-based services is to collect analytics and telemetry for marketing and engineering without annoying consumers with unnecessary checkboxes. There's a minimum amount of sync you want to make easy because it's a feature, not a bug. That new releases contain functions old software didn't have is called progress. Why does Apple or Ubuntu get a free pass when Microsoft doesn't?
      - sroerick 11y ago
        That's fine, then. Leave the checkboxes out. But at least give consumers the option. Even if it's in Advanced Settings, just like every other obscure privacy invading Microsoft feature. > It's a feature, not a bug. Really? You might want to rethink your talking points here... There really isn't a good connotation with this phrase. I criticize Apple and Ubuntu equally, as well. Apple's telemetry is comparable, though it is worth saying they've made major public pushes for privacy. This is not to say I trust them, but the effort is noted. (In fact, elsewhere in this thread I criticized Apple for sending data to iCloud.) Comparing Ubuntu telemetry to Microsoft's is disingenuous at best, and outright deceptive at worst. I'm not a huge Canonical fan and I disagree with some of their practices, but saying they are at the same degree of privacy violations as Microsoft is ludicrous.
- raesene9 11y ago
  Why do you think ordinary users should try to disable all the cloud based features of their OS? Surely a lot of the features they want (e.g. Google Now, Siri, Cortana) are based on the OS provider knowing about the users and having information about them. If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions...
  - sroerick 11y ago
    "Our research shows that users WANT these features that require us to constantly monitor microphones for certain phrases." Maybe the OS provider should stop being hostile.
    - serge2k 11y ago
      Was that said by the people doing Siri, Google Now, or Cortana?
    - raesene9 11y ago
      I don't think they're being hostile, I think they're providing features they think people want. Personally I hate this kind of feature and try to actively avoid products which have it, however I feel I am in a minority of general consumers in that feeling.
  - hueving 11y ago
    >If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions... No, the threat model is that centrally collected data will be pilfered by the government or the company itself. If it's just not collected in the first place the temptation won't be there to abuse it. It's like saying, "if your threat model is that the government is hostile, there is nothing you can do to prevent them from getting information from you." There are lines the government won't cross (e.g. US govt torturing your family members in front of you) and there are lines Microsoft won't cross (e.g. secret exfiltration of your files).
    - 11y ago
- e1ven 11y ago
  I'd love to learn more about what's explicitly whitelisted, and can't be blocked by DWS or other on-system resources. I've tried Googling, but it's hard to find pages which discuss it without knowing the right terms to search by. Can you help provide a link so I can learn more?
- yoz-y 11y ago
  Why do you put cloud sync and error reporting features into scare quotes? For a developer, the error reporting features are awesome and users get direct benefit from them (bugs squashed faster). I would take a crash dump over a poorly written (or nonexistent) bug report e-mail any time.
Grishnakh 11y ago
Windows PCs are not used for the same thing as smartphones. Most people don't have all their critical financial or business information on their phones; that's what PCs are for ("real work"). Most people probably don't care too much if Google knows that you're using Tinder.
- recursive 11y ago
  Android and Apple Pay suggest other intentions.
- raesene9 11y ago
  that's an interesting perspective, but I'm not sure it chimes too closely with what I've seen these days. in the UK at least most banks have mobile apps which run on android, people do e-mail (which controls most of their sensitive information) and other items on mobile devices, so their security would be every bit as important as a windows/OSX PC...
- scholia 11y ago
  Windows 10 runs on everything from USB thumbdrives to 84-inch Surface Hubs, including smartphones, tablets, 2-in-1s, laptops and desktops. If you remove all the corporate machines (with control via Global Policies) then the majority are probably mobile. Some of Windows 10's features come from the convergence with the smartphone platform (Notifications, Cortana). As well as being a mobile OS that runs lots of mobile apps, Windows 10 also has cloud integration (OneDrive, Windows Store etc). This shouldn't be a shock. Nadella has been saying "mobile first, cloud first" since he got the CEO job. > Most people don't have all their critical financial or business information on their phones Why would you imagine Microsoft was incorporating such info in its anonymized telemetry? It's not like telemetry was exactly a new thing. As a matter of fact, Windows Update has been scanning people's hard drives for years (with MRT, the Malware Removal Tool), and collecting crash data since XP.
- rodgerd 11y ago
  > Most people don't have all their critical financial or business information on their phones Hi, it's 2015 calling, how are things in 2010?
Zikes 11y ago
Windows is not special. Android is not special. Apple is not special. I am equally upset at any operating system that chooses to collect and store information about me and how I use my device without my knowledge or explicit consent. You don't get to point at some other examples of Bad Thing happening and hand-wave it all away like our concerns are not valid.
Nelkins 11y ago
I agree that the outrage over Windows 10 seems a little...inconsistent. For Android users (could be on iOS too, not sure), open up Maps. Open up the options menu in the upper left hand corner and choose "Your timeline." This will literally show you every place you have traveled, WHETHER OR NOT YOU EVEN SEARCHED FOR A PARTICULAR LOCATION (i.e. it just shows where you've been walking around). You can delete the data and opt out I think, but it's not by default. And that's just one thing off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many others. Ultimately, if you REALLY care about privacy you probably shouldn't be using any mainstream operating systems for mobile, desktop, etc.
- Zikes 11y ago
  Location History is opt-in, and Google sends you frequent email reminders that you are opted in. I have email reminders in my gmail account dating back to 2011 when it was still called Latitude. If you want to see this info and/or enable/disable it: https://www.google.com/maps/timeline https://www.google.com/maps/timeline
  - lstamour 11y ago
    Except you opt-in by agreeing to use Google Now, e.g. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/05/google-now-for-android-will-automatically-remember-where-you-parked/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/05/google-now-for-androi... I'm sure the implications of this isn't obvious for most people, just as express settings in Windows aren't obvious.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - mortehu 11y ago
      Google Now isn't all or nothing. It gracefully degrades as you disable each data source.
      - lstamour 11y ago
Sir_Substance 11y ago
>It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Just don't use a Microsoft account. Just chose custom configurations during setup. That's completely wrong and only the willfully ignorant would believe that. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-w... http://www.disclose.tv/news/a_terrifying_traffic_analysis_of_windows_10/121544 http://www.disclose.tv/news/a_terrifying_traffic_analysis_of... Or from the horses mouth: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft...
TruthSHIFT 11y ago
Apple has a history of avoiding the storage of personal data when possible. They also have a history of failing to comply with the demands of authorities to release personal information. On the other hand, Microsoft has a history of complying with government authorities.
- lstamour 11y ago
  Apple has a history of telemetry collection without any checkboxes whatsoever. Consider http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/82765/osx-yosemite-and-security-privacy http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/82765/osx-yosemi... and the existence of "com.apple.telemetry" as well as telemetry collection in their kernel and announcements on stage when they show how many people use certain features of OS X or iOS.
- sroerick 11y ago
  There was also a story that broke a while ago that text files in text editor would get stored in the cloud by default, even if they were not saved.
vetinari 11y ago
When you set-up Android phone, there is a screen with four checkboxes, that you have to go around and check/uncheck them. There is no button before this screen with "convenient" recommended defaults that rob you of privacy. You pretty much have to go through this screen, agree (or not) to each one and continue. And later, as you use the device, there is no changing your preferences behind your backs.
slowmovintarget 11y ago
Considering that Win10 has been shown to run an always-on key-logger that reports in to Microsoft every 5 minutes, I think it's safe to call this especially bad. Everything you type, in every application you run, all the time. You can't block this "telemetry" with Windows either. Microsoft has hard coded the DNS entries to bypass HOSTS file checking. Also voice and camera records get sent to Microsoft. None of this is contingent upon having or logging in to your Microsoft account. You don't even have to be using Microsoft features like Cortana or Bing. Microsoft has made the business decision that if you are running their OS, you are using their computer, not yours. They seem to be right that the majority are willing to hand over the keys for a "superior user experience". The only way to prevent 10 from phoning home is either to disconnect it from the Internet, or connect through a dedicated firewall machine which blocks the collection endpoints. Win 10 will still be running that key logger in the background, though. It's built in.

frik 11y ago

> It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Not true at all! It's impossible, without a hardware firewall. Their kernel network driver whitelists several microsoft domains and IP address ranges. What's worse Microsoft back-ported that phone-home crap and ships them as updates to Windows 7 and 8.x (of course the coincidentally stopped writting descriptions for their Windows updates). Not even mentioning how they force end users to upgrade to Windows 10 by displaying Windows 10 ads as popup dialogs and renaming Windows update buttons to click on the Upgrade button by accident, etc. It will hurt Microsoft's reputation a lot. With Android and iOS an end user with a little bit of knowledge (power user) can deactivate the analytics, cloud sync and error reporting "features" by changing a handful of settings. Windows 10 resets the privacy settings every major update (Threshold 2), they go even as far as change the name of exe files and registry keys. It's not too late to fix Win10 and MS reputation though, do something in 2016.

lstamour 11y ago
It can be turned off in version 1511 for Enterprise and Education editions, under Group Policy: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85).aspx https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85... See screenshot and guide at http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/30/windows-10-and-privacy/ http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/30/windows-10-and-privacy/ Alternatively, disable this service if concerned: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetry/ http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetr...
- criddell 11y ago
  I asked at the Microsoft store for an Enterprise edition of Windows and they told me it's not sold to consumers (they tried to tell me I want Windows 10 Professional). I'm not a student or a teacher, so I don't think I can buy the education edition either.
  - lstamour 11y ago
    You need 250+ users for Software Assurance through Enterprise Licensing programs: http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/F/5/1F5357DD-F7C8-4CC8-8C5F-7F6B1569ECF0/Transactional_Licensing_Comparison_Chart.pdf http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/F/5/1F5357DD-F7C8-4... However, through the MOSP (for 5-250, now called "Microsoft Online Services"), you can get Windows Intune with Software Assurance for Windows for $11/user (at least when it was announced), which includes Software Assurance, which then includes a copy of Windows 10 Enterprise (to upgrade/install on PCs for licensed users) as well as management tools. There's a way to add Office 365 on a per-user basis to your Intune subscription as well, as long as you maintain annual commitments (or some gibberish like that). I'm not entirely clear on the details, this is why Microsoft usually has folks call in for pricing and such. But I hear it's easy to manage. There's two methods of enterprise/education licensing, per user and per machine. Home/Pro are sold per-machine only, with varying features. See license agreements for details ;-) Ultimately, you can disable most/all of the Windows 10 spying yourself without special editions of Windows, they just make it easier for folks paying the big bucks.
    - yuhong 11y ago
      You can buy Win10 Enterprise with Software Assurance through Open Licence just fine too (and even the renewal isn't that expensive). More precisely, what it gains you is access to the "Security" telemetry level.
- frik 11y ago
  All can be turned off in Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) - it's very expensive and not sold to consumer nor small business at all. But think about your doctor, your lawyer, etc. many smaller business, cheaper Windows 10 editon (non LTSB) they will unintentionally leak your confidential personal data. You say such PCs shouldn't be online at all? But they are and many of them run on Windows. Scary.
  - Silhouette 11y ago
    You say [doctors', lawyers' and many smaller businesses'] PCs shouldn't be online at all? But they are and many of them run on Windows. Scary. And almost certainly very illegal in a lot of places. Not only do you have whatever routine data protection rules apply, but in cases like medical data or legally privileged information there are higher standards required in many jurisdictions as well.
    - bashinator 11y ago
      I work for a company that has to maintain HIPAA compliance, and we're all utterly horrified by Win10.
  - lstamour 11y ago
    Technically the bit about it not being sold to small business is not true. You can get LTSB through Software Assurance through Windows Intune licensing on a per-user basis through Microsoft Online Services for companies of 5-250 people. And you don't need LTSB or Enterprise/Education SKUs to turn them off, you just get more convenient toggles there. Ultimately you're responsible for what services run on your computer, and your computer's configuration. If you don't trust the OS manufacturer, as someone else pointed out, why are you running their code in the first place? ;-)
    - geofft 11y ago
      Because you have external requirements (the software you need to run only supports Windows, there aren't any outsourced IT providers in your area that know how to manage any other OSes, regulators will be confused, etc.) that demand you run the OS regardless of whether you trust it. Or because you don't trust any of the other options either, which is an entirely reasonable stance.
- sroerick 11y ago
  Why isn't this a feature that consumers can have? The line I always hear from Microsoft apologists is that "You can turn these features off at any time", but everything I've seen suggests this is only true for Enterprise and Education.
  - lstamour 11y ago
    Because the point of modern Internet-based services is to collect analytics and telemetry for marketing and engineering without annoying consumers with unnecessary checkboxes. There's a minimum amount of sync you want to make easy because it's a feature, not a bug. That new releases contain functions old software didn't have is called progress. Why does Apple or Ubuntu get a free pass when Microsoft doesn't?
    - sroerick 11y ago
      That's fine, then. Leave the checkboxes out. But at least give consumers the option. Even if it's in Advanced Settings, just like every other obscure privacy invading Microsoft feature. > It's a feature, not a bug. Really? You might want to rethink your talking points here... There really isn't a good connotation with this phrase. I criticize Apple and Ubuntu equally, as well. Apple's telemetry is comparable, though it is worth saying they've made major public pushes for privacy. This is not to say I trust them, but the effort is noted. (In fact, elsewhere in this thread I criticized Apple for sending data to iCloud.) Comparing Ubuntu telemetry to Microsoft's is disingenuous at best, and outright deceptive at worst. I'm not a huge Canonical fan and I disagree with some of their practices, but saying they are at the same degree of privacy violations as Microsoft is ludicrous.
raesene9 11y ago
Why do you think ordinary users should try to disable all the cloud based features of their OS? Surely a lot of the features they want (e.g. Google Now, Siri, Cortana) are based on the OS provider knowing about the users and having information about them. If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions...
- sroerick 11y ago
  "Our research shows that users WANT these features that require us to constantly monitor microphones for certain phrases." Maybe the OS provider should stop being hostile.
  - serge2k 11y ago
    Was that said by the people doing Siri, Google Now, or Cortana?
  - raesene9 11y ago
    I don't think they're being hostile, I think they're providing features they think people want. Personally I hate this kind of feature and try to actively avoid products which have it, however I feel I am in a minority of general consumers in that feeling.
- hueving 11y ago
  >If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions... No, the threat model is that centrally collected data will be pilfered by the government or the company itself. If it's just not collected in the first place the temptation won't be there to abuse it. It's like saying, "if your threat model is that the government is hostile, there is nothing you can do to prevent them from getting information from you." There are lines the government won't cross (e.g. US govt torturing your family members in front of you) and there are lines Microsoft won't cross (e.g. secret exfiltration of your files).
  - 11y ago
e1ven 11y ago
I'd love to learn more about what's explicitly whitelisted, and can't be blocked by DWS or other on-system resources. I've tried Googling, but it's hard to find pages which discuss it without knowing the right terms to search by. Can you help provide a link so I can learn more?
yoz-y 11y ago
Why do you put cloud sync and error reporting features into scare quotes? For a developer, the error reporting features are awesome and users get direct benefit from them (bugs squashed faster). I would take a crash dump over a poorly written (or nonexistent) bug report e-mail any time.

Grishnakh 11y ago

Windows PCs are not used for the same thing as smartphones. Most people don't have all their critical financial or business information on their phones; that's what PCs are for ("real work"). Most people probably don't care too much if Google knows that you're using Tinder.

recursive 11y ago
Android and Apple Pay suggest other intentions.
raesene9 11y ago
that's an interesting perspective, but I'm not sure it chimes too closely with what I've seen these days. in the UK at least most banks have mobile apps which run on android, people do e-mail (which controls most of their sensitive information) and other items on mobile devices, so their security would be every bit as important as a windows/OSX PC...
scholia 11y ago
Windows 10 runs on everything from USB thumbdrives to 84-inch Surface Hubs, including smartphones, tablets, 2-in-1s, laptops and desktops. If you remove all the corporate machines (with control via Global Policies) then the majority are probably mobile. Some of Windows 10's features come from the convergence with the smartphone platform (Notifications, Cortana). As well as being a mobile OS that runs lots of mobile apps, Windows 10 also has cloud integration (OneDrive, Windows Store etc). This shouldn't be a shock. Nadella has been saying "mobile first, cloud first" since he got the CEO job. > Most people don't have all their critical financial or business information on their phones Why would you imagine Microsoft was incorporating such info in its anonymized telemetry? It's not like telemetry was exactly a new thing. As a matter of fact, Windows Update has been scanning people's hard drives for years (with MRT, the Malware Removal Tool), and collecting crash data since XP.
rodgerd 11y ago
> Most people don't have all their critical financial or business information on their phones Hi, it's 2015 calling, how are things in 2010?

Zikes 11y ago

Windows is not special. Android is not special. Apple is not special. I am equally upset at any operating system that chooses to collect and store information about me and how I use my device without my knowledge or explicit consent. You don't get to point at some other examples of Bad Thing happening and hand-wave it all away like our concerns are not valid.

Nelkins 11y ago

I agree that the outrage over Windows 10 seems a little...inconsistent. For Android users (could be on iOS too, not sure), open up Maps. Open up the options menu in the upper left hand corner and choose "Your timeline." This will literally show you every place you have traveled, WHETHER OR NOT YOU EVEN SEARCHED FOR A PARTICULAR LOCATION (i.e. it just shows where you've been walking around). You can delete the data and opt out I think, but it's not by default. And that's just one thing off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many others. Ultimately, if you REALLY care about privacy you probably shouldn't be using any mainstream operating systems for mobile, desktop, etc.

Zikes 11y ago
Location History is opt-in, and Google sends you frequent email reminders that you are opted in. I have email reminders in my gmail account dating back to 2011 when it was still called Latitude. If you want to see this info and/or enable/disable it: https://www.google.com/maps/timeline https://www.google.com/maps/timeline
- lstamour 11y ago
  Except you opt-in by agreeing to use Google Now, e.g. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/05/google-now-for-android-will-automatically-remember-where-you-parked/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/05/google-now-for-androi... I'm sure the implications of this isn't obvious for most people, just as express settings in Windows aren't obvious.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - mortehu 11y ago
    Google Now isn't all or nothing. It gracefully degrades as you disable each data source.
    - lstamour 11y ago

Sir_Substance 11y ago

>It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Just don't use a Microsoft account. Just chose custom configurations during setup. That's completely wrong and only the willfully ignorant would believe that. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-w... http://www.disclose.tv/news/a_terrifying_traffic_analysis_of_windows_10/121544 http://www.disclose.tv/news/a_terrifying_traffic_analysis_of... Or from the horses mouth: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft...

TruthSHIFT 11y ago

Apple has a history of avoiding the storage of personal data when possible. They also have a history of failing to comply with the demands of authorities to release personal information. On the other hand, Microsoft has a history of complying with government authorities.

lstamour 11y ago
Apple has a history of telemetry collection without any checkboxes whatsoever. Consider http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/82765/osx-yosemite-and-security-privacy http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/82765/osx-yosemi... and the existence of "com.apple.telemetry" as well as telemetry collection in their kernel and announcements on stage when they show how many people use certain features of OS X or iOS.
sroerick 11y ago
There was also a story that broke a while ago that text files in text editor would get stored in the cloud by default, even if they were not saved.

vetinari 11y ago

When you set-up Android phone, there is a screen with four checkboxes, that you have to go around and check/uncheck them. There is no button before this screen with "convenient" recommended defaults that rob you of privacy. You pretty much have to go through this screen, agree (or not) to each one and continue. And later, as you use the device, there is no changing your preferences behind your backs.

slowmovintarget 11y ago

Considering that Win10 has been shown to run an always-on key-logger that reports in to Microsoft every 5 minutes, I think it's safe to call this especially bad. Everything you type, in every application you run, all the time. You can't block this "telemetry" with Windows either. Microsoft has hard coded the DNS entries to bypass HOSTS file checking. Also voice and camera records get sent to Microsoft. None of this is contingent upon having or logging in to your Microsoft account. You don't even have to be using Microsoft features like Cortana or Bing. Microsoft has made the business decision that if you are running their OS, you are using their computer, not yours. They seem to be right that the majority are willing to hand over the keys for a "superior user experience". The only way to prevent 10 from phoning home is either to disconnect it from the Internet, or connect through a dedicated firewall machine which blocks the collection endpoints. Win 10 will still be running that key logger in the background, though. It's built in.