5 ms·

First, cholesterol doesn't pass through the gastric system into blood in any meaningful amounts. The body makes its own cholesterol in the liver. So why do doct

by kefka 11y ago

First, cholesterol doesn't pass through the gastric system into blood in any meaningful amounts. The body makes its own cholesterol in the liver. So why do doctors say "cut down on cholesterol", when the body absorbs only negligible amounts? Secondly, I feel much more satiated when eating higher fat foods. I also end up eating less (documented) when fats are controlled for. Thirdly, due to your obtuseness, you miss the point I was making. There is a great deal of conflicting data in nutrition theory. Combine that with fad diets (What is it, paleo is the new in thing?) and confusion is abound everywhere.

dang 11y ago
> Thirdly, due to your obtuseness Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, regardless of how obtuse someone seems. Please post civilly and substantively, or don't post.
noondip 11y ago
There's isn't any conflicting data. There are only bad, biased research published which gets media attention with click-bait titles purposely to dilute actual reason and good science. I challenge you to post some actual links to articles here which advocate a high-fat or low-carb diet. I can personally guarantee you it will 1) be sponsored by the Atkins foundation and/or animal agriculture business and 2) have obvious flaws in methodology which I'll gladly point out to you. What I'll likely get instead are die-hard paleo freaks taking refuge in silent downvoting. They would rather not confront the overwhelming body of scientific evidence which disproves their "diets" and puts low-carb nonsense to shame. > cholesterol doesn't pass through the gastric system into blood in any meaningful amounts. Food is a packaged deal. You can't eat cholesterol-laden meals without also consuming vast amounts of saturated fat, for instance. What's clear beyond any shadow of a doubt is consuming a diet high in fat and cholesterol will massively increase your risk of heart disease, diabetes, etc. Whatever nit-picked understanding you have of how cholesterol works in the human physiology will not refute this fact. > I feel much more satiated when eating higher fat foods. No surprise there, considering fat has 9 calories per gram, whereas other macronutrients only have 4. But what you've done by feeling satiated is miss out on nutritionally-dense foods and replace them with poor quality foods which just fill you up.
- strathmeyer 11y ago
  hint: the fats we're eating are high an nutrients, and such diets existed long before Atkins
- HelloMcFly 11y ago
  > There's isn't any conflicting data. I don't read blogs or HuffPo, I try to find the research, and I find plenty of - if-not-conflicting - difficult to fully reconcile evidence. My wife is a pediatrician who tries to keep up with this stuff, and she would disagree with you as well. I'm not just talking about diet comparisons alone, I'm talking about the merits and dangers of individual foods and food types. There's a lot of research, not all of it saying the same thing. It's not easy to parse all of the caveats, confounding factors, and unique populations. > I challenge you to post some actual links to articles here which advocate a high-fat or low-carb diet. Here's one [1], [2]. Your criticism of [1] will be "low sample size", which is fair. But then most studies with large sample sizes are retrospective, which is the other major criticism. Your criticism of [2] will be the population type, which is also fair. > You can't eat cholesterol-laden meals without also consuming vast amounts of saturated fat, for instance. There's much said about the evil of saturated fat, and some of it is clearly true such as a link to heart disease (or is it? suggests one of many not-hard-to-find conflicting sources [3]; [4]) other evils are less clear. Much early criticism at it was given because it was thought to increase cholesterol, which isn't the case for most individuals; when cholesterol is impacted, it's primarily impacting the HDL:LDL ratio (or alternatively, Total:HDL). This study [5] suggests little difference in saturated vs. other types of fat, though it relied on self-reporting. The story is more nuanced, as [6] suggests, with some clear influence on some things and mixed results elsewhere. [7] is interesting though as it indicates a link between saturated fat and heart disease, but suggests replacing saturated fat with carbs slightly increases that risk. > Whatever nit-picked understanding you have of how cholesterol works in the human physiology will not refute this fact. It's hardly fair to deride someone for accurately pointing out the small connection between dietary and bodily cholesterol. That's not a nit-picked understanding, it's something worth knowing. > But what you've done by feeling satiated is miss out on nutritionally-dense foods and replace them with poor quality foods which just fill you up. I'm not the OP, but it's certainly not one or the other for me. I eat high-fat foods (dairy, nuts, legumes, olive oil, eggs), and nutritionally dense foods (leafy greens, root vegetables). I don't disagree with your conclusions in general, but do think it is a bit over-dismissive. -- [1] http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v63/n8/full/ejcn20094a.html http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v63/n8/full/ejcn20094a.ht... [2] (PDF WARNING) http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2840-8-35.pdf http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2840-8-35.pdf [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648?dopt=AbstractPlus http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648?dopt=AbstractPlu... [4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20685950?dopt=AbstractPlus http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20685950?dopt=AbstractPlu... [5] http://annals.org/article.aspx?doi=10.7326/M13-1788&an_fo_ed http://annals.org/article.aspx?doi=10.7326/M13-1788&an_fo_ed [6] http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11745-010-3393-4/fulltext.html http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11745-010-3393-4/f... [7] http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1425.abstract?ijkey=99ecdbcda47e1604f229ec5e7225596119769c60&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1425.abstract?ijkey=9...

by kefka 11y ago

dang 11y ago

> Thirdly, due to your obtuseness Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, regardless of how obtuse someone seems. Please post civilly and substantively, or don't post.

noondip 11y ago

There's isn't any conflicting data. There are only bad, biased research published which gets media attention with click-bait titles purposely to dilute actual reason and good science. I challenge you to post some actual links to articles here which advocate a high-fat or low-carb diet. I can personally guarantee you it will 1) be sponsored by the Atkins foundation and/or animal agriculture business and 2) have obvious flaws in methodology which I'll gladly point out to you. What I'll likely get instead are die-hard paleo freaks taking refuge in silent downvoting. They would rather not confront the overwhelming body of scientific evidence which disproves their "diets" and puts low-carb nonsense to shame. > cholesterol doesn't pass through the gastric system into blood in any meaningful amounts. Food is a packaged deal. You can't eat cholesterol-laden meals without also consuming vast amounts of saturated fat, for instance. What's clear beyond any shadow of a doubt is consuming a diet high in fat and cholesterol will massively increase your risk of heart disease, diabetes, etc. Whatever nit-picked understanding you have of how cholesterol works in the human physiology will not refute this fact. > I feel much more satiated when eating higher fat foods. No surprise there, considering fat has 9 calories per gram, whereas other macronutrients only have 4. But what you've done by feeling satiated is miss out on nutritionally-dense foods and replace them with poor quality foods which just fill you up.

strathmeyer 11y ago
hint: the fats we're eating are high an nutrients, and such diets existed long before Atkins
HelloMcFly 11y ago
> There's isn't any conflicting data. I don't read blogs or HuffPo, I try to find the research, and I find plenty of - if-not-conflicting - difficult to fully reconcile evidence. My wife is a pediatrician who tries to keep up with this stuff, and she would disagree with you as well. I'm not just talking about diet comparisons alone, I'm talking about the merits and dangers of individual foods and food types. There's a lot of research, not all of it saying the same thing. It's not easy to parse all of the caveats, confounding factors, and unique populations. > I challenge you to post some actual links to articles here which advocate a high-fat or low-carb diet. Here's one [1], [2]. Your criticism of [1] will be "low sample size", which is fair. But then most studies with large sample sizes are retrospective, which is the other major criticism. Your criticism of [2] will be the population type, which is also fair. > You can't eat cholesterol-laden meals without also consuming vast amounts of saturated fat, for instance. There's much said about the evil of saturated fat, and some of it is clearly true such as a link to heart disease (or is it? suggests one of many not-hard-to-find conflicting sources [3]; [4]) other evils are less clear. Much early criticism at it was given because it was thought to increase cholesterol, which isn't the case for most individuals; when cholesterol is impacted, it's primarily impacting the HDL:LDL ratio (or alternatively, Total:HDL). This study [5] suggests little difference in saturated vs. other types of fat, though it relied on self-reporting. The story is more nuanced, as [6] suggests, with some clear influence on some things and mixed results elsewhere. [7] is interesting though as it indicates a link between saturated fat and heart disease, but suggests replacing saturated fat with carbs slightly increases that risk. > Whatever nit-picked understanding you have of how cholesterol works in the human physiology will not refute this fact. It's hardly fair to deride someone for accurately pointing out the small connection between dietary and bodily cholesterol. That's not a nit-picked understanding, it's something worth knowing. > But what you've done by feeling satiated is miss out on nutritionally-dense foods and replace them with poor quality foods which just fill you up. I'm not the OP, but it's certainly not one or the other for me. I eat high-fat foods (dairy, nuts, legumes, olive oil, eggs), and nutritionally dense foods (leafy greens, root vegetables). I don't disagree with your conclusions in general, but do think it is a bit over-dismissive. -- [1] http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v63/n8/full/ejcn20094a.html http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v63/n8/full/ejcn20094a.ht... [2] (PDF WARNING) http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2840-8-35.pdf http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2840-8-35.pdf [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648?dopt=AbstractPlus http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648?dopt=AbstractPlu... [4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20685950?dopt=AbstractPlus http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20685950?dopt=AbstractPlu... [5] http://annals.org/article.aspx?doi=10.7326/M13-1788&an_fo_ed http://annals.org/article.aspx?doi=10.7326/M13-1788&an_fo_ed [6] http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11745-010-3393-4/fulltext.html http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11745-010-3393-4/f... [7] http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1425.abstract?ijkey=99ecdbcda47e1604f229ec5e7225596119769c60&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1425.abstract?ijkey=9...