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I was a writer for Wired Magazine for three years and never took a single class in journalism, and nothing beyond the required english classes in college. I th

I was a writer for Wired Magazine for three years and never took a single class in journalism, and nothing beyond the required english classes in college. I think we need to do more to help educate parents and prospective students that in most cases a college degree is next to worthless. For-profit schools like the University of Phoenix get a lot of negative press, but how about these little known colleges referenced in the story that charge nearly as much as top of the line schools? Sadly, many colleges (most?) are simply outgrowths of an overgenerous loan subsidy program run by the government. If you want to enter a credentialed field, be it education, medicine, or law—by all means get a degree. Likewise, if you're going into a highly technical field, it's a wise investment to study intensively. Most psych/business majors would be better served working their way up through the ranks. In 90% of creative fields you're much better off just "doing it." I got my job at Wired by writing on my blog and getting the attention of the editor-in-chief. If you want to be a filmmaker, make films—same with music, art, etc. I essentially got paid for my "graduate school" in writing. This is easier said than done when most entry level gigs require a college degree, but you can still get an affordable degree at most state universities. Also, we should be talking more at the political level about vocational education and non-degree training programs to prepare people for the workforce.

intopieces 11y ago
>I think we need to do more to help educate parents and prospective students that in most cases a college degree is next to worthless. Do you have a source for this? The Bureau of Labor Statistics says the exact opposite. [0] >Most psych/business majors would be better served working their way up through the ranks. Source? Again and again, people only seem to look at the cost of education like education is a product that you buy at a store that could be gotten cheaper if you follow this One Weird Trick. College education is an experience, an exposure to new ideas, a gradual development of ancillary skills. >This is easier said than done when most entry level gigs require a college degree, but you can still get an affordable degree at most state universities. Why would anyone bother to get an affordable degree when they are "in most cases... next to worthless?" Again, another person who went to college advocating that other people don't go to college. Every time this topic comes up, people who have clearly benefitted from higher education start claiming no one else needs a college education. The same attitude that led us into the student loans debacle -- "education is a product" -- is the same attitude that pervades every thread about this topic, but somehow the participants think they've 'hacked' the system by advocating people not get an education. It's bizarrely short sighted by otherwise educated individuals. [0]http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
- cm2012 11y ago
  > Source? Again and again, people only seem to look at the cost of education like education is a product that you buy at a store that could be gotten cheaper. College education is an experience, an exposure to new ideas, a gradual development of ancillary skills. -- Few people are saying college has no value. Mostly people say what you get is not worth what you pay. My own anecdote - I am by all accounts a successful "business degree" person. While I went to my four year college with a business major, I also started my career in business/marketing, starting at $10 an hour in freshman year, and getting to the 99th percentile of income for my age by age 24. The growth I received from college was a rounding error compared to the growth I got from work experience in the same 4 year period and same amount of effort. And I was paid to get the work experience...
  - Phlarp 11y ago
    Very similar trajectory; I attended a very middle of the road business school and had a vaguely IT related student job for three years. The classes and degree were largely worthless, outside of being able to tick the box on applications. The student job taught me a little bit, but the majority of my marketable skills are self taught. I did freelance work for about 18 months directly prior to graduation and was able to leverage that experience into an excellent and stable job offer at 23, which I'm still happily employed by two years later. If you are ambitious and "want it" badly enough, the lack of a degree shouldn't slow you down, and if you aren't ambitious or don't "want it" then no degree will magically make you marketable. Most ambitious will probably choose to pursue the degree anyway, so it's self fulfilling to an extent. The point of the article stands sharply though, the "experience" isn't worth the cost, and the debt we incur is choking other parts of the economy. How many millenials do you know that drive a brand new vehicle or own their own home?
- theseatoms 11y ago
  Those who earn bachelor's degrees do indeed earn more than those with only a high school education. But many people are vastly overpaying for this benefit. Not to mention that this is not a controlled experiment. Maybe those who earn degrees would have earned more anyway. (Though I do suspect that college is very beneficial, for the reasons you cite.)
nulagrithom 11y ago
> Most psych/business majors would be better served working their way up through the ranks. A little anecdotal story backing this up... My wife started as a paraeducator (teacher's helper) at a school after graduating from high school. A few years later she started working at another school, helping homeless & migrant children. She eventually left that job to work with migrant/bilingual daycares. This process took 8 years. She then pursued a degree in psychology. Why? Because her next advancement required the state to check a little box on her form that says: "Applicant has a B.S. in social studies or similar". Where did she go for the degree? The cheapest, online college she could find. The degree didn't matter for 8 years. The place the degree came from didn't matter at all. The price of the degree mattered only to us. She would have gained nothing by pursuing the degree immediately, and racking up any sizable debt from this degree would've just been silly.
- cpursley 11y ago
  Interesting, which online school if you don't mind me asking?

intopieces 11y ago

>I think we need to do more to help educate parents and prospective students that in most cases a college degree is next to worthless. Do you have a source for this? The Bureau of Labor Statistics says the exact opposite. [0] >Most psych/business majors would be better served working their way up through the ranks. Source? Again and again, people only seem to look at the cost of education like education is a product that you buy at a store that could be gotten cheaper if you follow this One Weird Trick. College education is an experience, an exposure to new ideas, a gradual development of ancillary skills. >This is easier said than done when most entry level gigs require a college degree, but you can still get an affordable degree at most state universities. Why would anyone bother to get an affordable degree when they are "in most cases... next to worthless?" Again, another person who went to college advocating that other people don't go to college. Every time this topic comes up, people who have clearly benefitted from higher education start claiming no one else needs a college education. The same attitude that led us into the student loans debacle -- "education is a product" -- is the same attitude that pervades every thread about this topic, but somehow the participants think they've 'hacked' the system by advocating people not get an education. It's bizarrely short sighted by otherwise educated individuals. [0]http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

cm2012 11y ago
> Source? Again and again, people only seem to look at the cost of education like education is a product that you buy at a store that could be gotten cheaper. College education is an experience, an exposure to new ideas, a gradual development of ancillary skills. -- Few people are saying college has no value. Mostly people say what you get is not worth what you pay. My own anecdote - I am by all accounts a successful "business degree" person. While I went to my four year college with a business major, I also started my career in business/marketing, starting at $10 an hour in freshman year, and getting to the 99th percentile of income for my age by age 24. The growth I received from college was a rounding error compared to the growth I got from work experience in the same 4 year period and same amount of effort. And I was paid to get the work experience...
- Phlarp 11y ago
  Very similar trajectory; I attended a very middle of the road business school and had a vaguely IT related student job for three years. The classes and degree were largely worthless, outside of being able to tick the box on applications. The student job taught me a little bit, but the majority of my marketable skills are self taught. I did freelance work for about 18 months directly prior to graduation and was able to leverage that experience into an excellent and stable job offer at 23, which I'm still happily employed by two years later. If you are ambitious and "want it" badly enough, the lack of a degree shouldn't slow you down, and if you aren't ambitious or don't "want it" then no degree will magically make you marketable. Most ambitious will probably choose to pursue the degree anyway, so it's self fulfilling to an extent. The point of the article stands sharply though, the "experience" isn't worth the cost, and the debt we incur is choking other parts of the economy. How many millenials do you know that drive a brand new vehicle or own their own home?
theseatoms 11y ago
Those who earn bachelor's degrees do indeed earn more than those with only a high school education. But many people are vastly overpaying for this benefit. Not to mention that this is not a controlled experiment. Maybe those who earn degrees would have earned more anyway. (Though I do suspect that college is very beneficial, for the reasons you cite.)

nulagrithom 11y ago

> Most psych/business majors would be better served working their way up through the ranks. A little anecdotal story backing this up... My wife started as a paraeducator (teacher's helper) at a school after graduating from high school. A few years later she started working at another school, helping homeless & migrant children. She eventually left that job to work with migrant/bilingual daycares. This process took 8 years. She then pursued a degree in psychology. Why? Because her next advancement required the state to check a little box on her form that says: "Applicant has a B.S. in social studies or similar". Where did she go for the degree? The cheapest, online college she could find. The degree didn't matter for 8 years. The place the degree came from didn't matter at all. The price of the degree mattered only to us. She would have gained nothing by pursuing the degree immediately, and racking up any sizable debt from this degree would've just been silly.

cpursley 11y ago
Interesting, which online school if you don't mind me asking?