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My problem with body scanners? Before Snowden I thought I am in tinfoil hat territory -- but now I am reasonably sure this happens or could happen any time: the

by chx 11y ago

My problem with body scanners? Before Snowden I thought I am in tinfoil hat territory -- but now I am reasonably sure this happens or could happen any time: they store those scans along with your personal data. But, you are saying, you are not identifying yourself going into the scanner. Sure you don't but they have a very, very good idea about who is at the airport based on simply the flight manifests and then it's just a matter of matching your face to a relatively small list: Atlanta had 100M passengers, that's only 274 000 daily and you can start with likelier candidates the closer to the time, it's unlikely you'd need to check more than 10-20k faces. Edit: to add, the TSA does not even need to be aware of this going on, the clerks on spot even less so.

pavel_lishin 11y ago
Yup. I'm not worried about cancer. To be honest, I'm not even worried about people seeing me semi-naked - my laptop camera takes a snapshot every 20 minutes, so I'm sure I've already accidentally exposed my ass online. I'm concerned that the software is closed-source, and uninspected by anyone but the creator, so I have no idea what it's doing. Sure, they claim that the new machines only show the agents a generic body outline - but again, given that nobody's seen the source code, I have no idea what the machine actually sees or stores. I'm worried about the lack of transparency.
JshWright 11y ago
> you are not identifying yourself going into the scanner You don't have your ID checked and boarding pass scanned moments before entering the scanner? Sure, you wouldn't know exactly the order folks entered the scanner after being identified, but assuming you couldn't correlate the scan to the ID based on other publically available information, all it would take is for you fly twice to correlate the scan to the ID (say... both legs of a round trip flight?).
- chx 11y ago
  I fail to see how could you exfiltrate data from the "name game" stations. I have watched very, very closely and I just can't see how your data could enter into a computer. Or do I remember wrong? I do not think they have an actual data connection to verify the validity of the boarding pass.
  - moftz 11y ago
    They don't, the agent at the desk is just making sure that the name on the ticket matches the name on the ID you provide. There's been countless articles about how insecure this is. You buy a ticket under a false name and print out a second one that has your real name on it. The airline's no-fly list checks the fake name on the real ticket you bought but the TSA agent checks the real name on the fake ticket matches the ID that's handed to him.
fucking_tragedy 11y ago
There are little to no downsides to storing that information. It will have value to someone, most likely intelligence, law enforcement and private security agencies. I'd say it's safe to assume it's been stored. Many times you have to have your photo ID scanned before entering security and you have cameras pointed at you from multiple angles while queued. The task of matching scans with their owners becomes much more trivial.
- ams6110 11y ago
  Don't understand the downvotes. Poster is saying that there's little to no downside for those who would benefit from storing it. Not that there's no downside for the individuals being scanned.
  - fucking_tragedy 11y ago
    I've noticed a trend where if you don't make a value judgment after such a comment, it is interpreted as support. I am pointing out the ease at which the government has operated and will operate when given the opportunity to collect such data. The government will see no repercussions for storing data the Stasi and KGB couldn't even dream of collecting and analyzing. I am well aware of the abuses and rights violations that storing that information can enable. The OP was made to illustrate how easily we will find ourselves heading down that path.
enraged_camel 11y ago
My problem with body scanners: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/tsa-screener-confession-102912_Page2.html#.Uvi4x2KSycE http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/tsa-screener-... I don't care if some dude with a high school degree sees me naked. It's just that, as a matter of principle, the entire thing is a sham, and the TSA knows it.

by chx 11y ago

pavel_lishin 11y ago

Yup. I'm not worried about cancer. To be honest, I'm not even worried about people seeing me semi-naked - my laptop camera takes a snapshot every 20 minutes, so I'm sure I've already accidentally exposed my ass online. I'm concerned that the software is closed-source, and uninspected by anyone but the creator, so I have no idea what it's doing. Sure, they claim that the new machines only show the agents a generic body outline - but again, given that nobody's seen the source code, I have no idea what the machine actually sees or stores. I'm worried about the lack of transparency.

JshWright 11y ago

> you are not identifying yourself going into the scanner You don't have your ID checked and boarding pass scanned moments before entering the scanner? Sure, you wouldn't know exactly the order folks entered the scanner after being identified, but assuming you couldn't correlate the scan to the ID based on other publically available information, all it would take is for you fly twice to correlate the scan to the ID (say... both legs of a round trip flight?).

chx 11y ago
I fail to see how could you exfiltrate data from the "name game" stations. I have watched very, very closely and I just can't see how your data could enter into a computer. Or do I remember wrong? I do not think they have an actual data connection to verify the validity of the boarding pass.
- moftz 11y ago
  They don't, the agent at the desk is just making sure that the name on the ticket matches the name on the ID you provide. There's been countless articles about how insecure this is. You buy a ticket under a false name and print out a second one that has your real name on it. The airline's no-fly list checks the fake name on the real ticket you bought but the TSA agent checks the real name on the fake ticket matches the ID that's handed to him.

fucking_tragedy 11y ago

There are little to no downsides to storing that information. It will have value to someone, most likely intelligence, law enforcement and private security agencies. I'd say it's safe to assume it's been stored. Many times you have to have your photo ID scanned before entering security and you have cameras pointed at you from multiple angles while queued. The task of matching scans with their owners becomes much more trivial.

ams6110 11y ago
Don't understand the downvotes. Poster is saying that there's little to no downside for those who would benefit from storing it. Not that there's no downside for the individuals being scanned.
- fucking_tragedy 11y ago
  I've noticed a trend where if you don't make a value judgment after such a comment, it is interpreted as support. I am pointing out the ease at which the government has operated and will operate when given the opportunity to collect such data. The government will see no repercussions for storing data the Stasi and KGB couldn't even dream of collecting and analyzing. I am well aware of the abuses and rights violations that storing that information can enable. The OP was made to illustrate how easily we will find ourselves heading down that path.

enraged_camel 11y ago

My problem with body scanners: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/tsa-screener-confession-102912_Page2.html#.Uvi4x2KSycE http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/tsa-screener-... I don't care if some dude with a high school degree sees me naked. It's just that, as a matter of principle, the entire thing is a sham, and the TSA knows it.