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My (simplistic) understanding is that webpack is more simple than grunt and gulp to configure. Backed up by my observation that most of the most current projec

by hoodoof 11y ago

My (simplistic) understanding is that webpack is more simple than grunt and gulp to configure. Backed up by my observation that most of the most current projects seem to be embracing it - that's enough for me, it's the current winner so it's what I use. I don't have time and I'm not interested in doing a detailed technical analysis - my approach is just to try to understand what technologies are the latest - and on the assumption that they are the latest because they are better, and on the assumption that previous technologies that did the same thing will be superseded - I use them. You can criticise this approach as just following the trends but I take this approach because it would be stupid to try to understand every single component of the ecosystem and then make my own careful choices - what is everyone else using right now? Probably good enough unless I know some good reason not to use it. I am a beginner and struggle hard to understand the vast array of tech I need to do reactJS development. It hurts me very badly sometimes and I feel stupid because I don't grasp it all, but I have to get shit built so for the most part I'm just doing what others are doing and as I go I am learning more and more and in areas that I have gained real understanding I then make my own educated decisions about exactly how to do it in the right way.

tptacek 11y ago
This response sums up something important about the Javascript development community that I cannot put into words.
- modarts 11y ago
  You take the struggles of a beginner as an indictment on the broader professional JS development community?
  - tptacek 11y ago
    It has nothing to do with them being a "beginner".
- spicyj 11y ago
  I believe (and hope) this is not representative of the JS community.
- isolate 11y ago
  Given that front ends have a huge visual component, it kind of makes sense that developers would approach them like clothing fashion: you don't have to watch the designers to look reasonably good, or even pay attention to construction, you just have to watch everyone else. Well, at least that's what I picked up from this rather honest opinion.
- bpatrianakos 11y ago
  I think it sums up the Beginner Community in general, not the JS community. You see this with beginners in everything.
- mbrock 11y ago
  My reaction to your comment is likewise ineffable and mysterious.
- amorphid 11y ago
  The JavaScript "community" feels like more a large country.
clessg 11y ago
> webpack is more simple than grunt and gulp to configure That's the first time I've heard that one. In my opinion, what makes Webpack great is its raw power and module-based (rather than file-based) focus. Browserify is easy to work with and get started with but less powerful. (Granted, it's quickly catching up.) Webpack is a lot of things, but easy to configure is not one of them. By the way, Webpack doesn't really replace Grunt or Gulp. It replaces Browserify. That said, if you use Webpack, you can easily get by with npm scripts instead of Grunt/Gulp.
NDizzle 11y ago
Don't take this the wrong way - I mean this with the most respect possible. You shouldn't be recommending software to anyone.
- hoodoof 11y ago
  I'm sorry you feel that way. I know a huge amount about software development and work with a wide range of technologies. Learning some completely new field like browser based development is best done by just jumping in and trying to make stuff work. You learn along the way and much of it will be unfamiliar. Over time things will become more and more familiar until you start to develop expertise across the entire field. If you are suggesting that instead I should learn by sitting down for six months in an ivory tower and learn all the theory and function of every part of the software ecosystem that I plan to work with so that I can then take every step of my journey as an expert, then you are misguided. All software developers live in a fog of ignorance which they work to push back. No one knows everything. The best way to push back the fog of igorance is to start working with the technology to get real stuff done. To do so, it is necessary to make pragmatic decisions such as "well it looks like everyone in this field is using technology X - so that's what I'll use until I know enough to decide otherwise". Are you someone with a deep knowledge of JS and react development? If yes, did you step in to it as an expert in all things? Did you use things without knowing why? Of course you did. Everyone has to.
  - Bahamut 11y ago
    You admitted to being a beginner - a beginner shouldn't be recommending technology choices beyond that a particular choice might help people get started. There is too much a beginner does not know was his/her point.
    - skrebbel 11y ago
      > You admitted to being a beginner He said he was a front end JS beginner. He also mentioned being a seasoned software engineer overall. His advice is completely sound, and a very valid approach: Want to learn a new platform/ecosystem? Take whatever is the most popular and make stuff work. It's the fastest way to learn by far and with an free bonus you get actual valuable software. Nobody flames people who learn Rails while learning Ruby! What's the matter with you guys? The only mistake the GP made was "admit" on HN that he's a beginner at something.
hakanderyal 11y ago
From my limited POV, this is how I see most of the newcomers to JS community currently behaves. And it's a good example of 'learning by doing', which is the advice that everyone gives around here. - Do some research, look what successful/smart/sane people are using/working on, and why. - Jump in, hack stuff, make things work. - Learn while creating. Discover the insights behind the choices that people you're following made. - Start making your own informed choices. As long as you're not stuck in the step 2, and advance beyond doing what everyone is doing, you're probably on the right track. That's how I learned to build maintainable/scalable/successful applications. It worked out perfectly for me. Edit: typo, clarified first sentence.

by hoodoof 11y ago

tptacek 11y ago

This response sums up something important about the Javascript development community that I cannot put into words.

modarts 11y ago
You take the struggles of a beginner as an indictment on the broader professional JS development community?
- tptacek 11y ago
  It has nothing to do with them being a "beginner".
spicyj 11y ago
I believe (and hope) this is not representative of the JS community.
isolate 11y ago
Given that front ends have a huge visual component, it kind of makes sense that developers would approach them like clothing fashion: you don't have to watch the designers to look reasonably good, or even pay attention to construction, you just have to watch everyone else. Well, at least that's what I picked up from this rather honest opinion.
bpatrianakos 11y ago
I think it sums up the Beginner Community in general, not the JS community. You see this with beginners in everything.
mbrock 11y ago
My reaction to your comment is likewise ineffable and mysterious.
amorphid 11y ago
The JavaScript "community" feels like more a large country.

clessg 11y ago

> webpack is more simple than grunt and gulp to configure That's the first time I've heard that one. In my opinion, what makes Webpack great is its raw power and module-based (rather than file-based) focus. Browserify is easy to work with and get started with but less powerful. (Granted, it's quickly catching up.) Webpack is a lot of things, but easy to configure is not one of them. By the way, Webpack doesn't really replace Grunt or Gulp. It replaces Browserify. That said, if you use Webpack, you can easily get by with npm scripts instead of Grunt/Gulp.

NDizzle 11y ago

Don't take this the wrong way - I mean this with the most respect possible. You shouldn't be recommending software to anyone.

hoodoof 11y ago
I'm sorry you feel that way. I know a huge amount about software development and work with a wide range of technologies. Learning some completely new field like browser based development is best done by just jumping in and trying to make stuff work. You learn along the way and much of it will be unfamiliar. Over time things will become more and more familiar until you start to develop expertise across the entire field. If you are suggesting that instead I should learn by sitting down for six months in an ivory tower and learn all the theory and function of every part of the software ecosystem that I plan to work with so that I can then take every step of my journey as an expert, then you are misguided. All software developers live in a fog of ignorance which they work to push back. No one knows everything. The best way to push back the fog of igorance is to start working with the technology to get real stuff done. To do so, it is necessary to make pragmatic decisions such as "well it looks like everyone in this field is using technology X - so that's what I'll use until I know enough to decide otherwise". Are you someone with a deep knowledge of JS and react development? If yes, did you step in to it as an expert in all things? Did you use things without knowing why? Of course you did. Everyone has to.
- Bahamut 11y ago
  You admitted to being a beginner - a beginner shouldn't be recommending technology choices beyond that a particular choice might help people get started. There is too much a beginner does not know was his/her point.
  - skrebbel 11y ago
    > You admitted to being a beginner He said he was a front end JS beginner. He also mentioned being a seasoned software engineer overall. His advice is completely sound, and a very valid approach: Want to learn a new platform/ecosystem? Take whatever is the most popular and make stuff work. It's the fastest way to learn by far and with an free bonus you get actual valuable software. Nobody flames people who learn Rails while learning Ruby! What's the matter with you guys? The only mistake the GP made was "admit" on HN that he's a beginner at something.

hakanderyal 11y ago

From my limited POV, this is how I see most of the newcomers to JS community currently behaves. And it's a good example of 'learning by doing', which is the advice that everyone gives around here. - Do some research, look what successful/smart/sane people are using/working on, and why. - Jump in, hack stuff, make things work. - Learn while creating. Discover the insights behind the choices that people you're following made. - Start making your own informed choices. As long as you're not stuck in the step 2, and advance beyond doing what everyone is doing, you're probably on the right track. That's how I learned to build maintainable/scalable/successful applications. It worked out perfectly for me. Edit: typo, clarified first sentence.