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Since 2001 more more people have died on US soil from toppling vending machines than from terrorist attacks.. Yet we are constantly told we need to scrap the en

Since 2001 more more people have died on US soil from toppling vending machines than from terrorist attacks.. Yet we are constantly told we need to scrap the entire bill of rights to stay safe. It's ridiculous. Who does this serve?

lfam 11y ago
Do you have a citation for this? I'd love to share it with a friend of mine who is afraid of being a victim of terrorism in the US.
- yoloswagins 11y ago
  The statistic comes from Dr. Cosio, who looked at newspaper reports and talked to emergency room doctors. Unfortunately, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention don't keep track of vending machine deaths, so we're left with Dr. Cosio's less than perfect methods. Full paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1602339 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1602339
- jimktrains2 11y ago
  http://freakonomics.com/2011/09/08/how-are-sharks-less-dangerous-than-vending-machines-an-exercise-in-conditional-risk/ http://freakonomics.com/2011/09/08/how-are-sharks-less-dange... might be good? You could also remind them that ~90 people die every day from car crashes. Each month more people die from car crashes than have died in terrorist attacks on the US. A similar number of people (to the number that die in car crashes) die from gun violence in the US. Terrorism should realistically be so far down on someone's lists of cars that they shouldn't be able to justify any ounce of worry on it. Driving more cautiously would be a better use of the anxiety.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  Detailed data is here: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf I'm guessing terrorism is under one of the homicides. On most years, slips in bathtubs and bee stings kill more people than terrorists. Drowning, motor vehicles, chemical poisoning, half the crap in the grocery store, too much drugs/surgery... all sorts of things Americans aren't asking for censorship or intervention for that are what kill them en masse. Terrorism? That just kills freedom when we pass laws to stop it. Just as it's partly intended to. ;)
  - joesmo 11y ago
    "Terrorism? That just kills freedom when we pass laws to stop it. Just as it's partly intended to." So true. I don't think even bin Laden himself could have dreamt of the amount of damage we would do to ourselves here in the US as a result of his attacks. The self-induced aftermath is worse than the actual carnage of the attacks themselves and seemingly has no end in sight. Just as it was intended to, but on a whole other, much larger scale, no doubt.
    - nickpsecurity 11y ago
      What's bad is that it was predicted, albeit more severely, in a movie about terrorism called The Siege. Starred Denzel Washington and Bruce Willis. Had attacks, the cell model of operation, the cops (Denzel) unable to do stuff, and the military (Bruce) called in to declare martial law. Some of the stuff Denzel said in the movie apply to America today. I highly recommend it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLQOc-B0Ys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLQOc-B0Ys Note: Key difference is America became both a surveillance state and a dual state. Dual state is when two governments, public and secret, operate in parallel with one able to bend/break rules to hit certain targets. This model is less likely to cause a revolution given most people never see the other side of things.
meowface 11y ago
What about non-Western victims of terrorist attacks?
- sdm 11y ago
  Then would have to expand the other side of the comparison to include the whole world as well. It would not surprise me if the comparison remained true. There are likely only 5-10 countries in the world where terrorism has killed more people than soda machines falling over: especially with the 2001 date restriction. While there more than 200 countries depending on how you count. Even if you extended it to go back to the 1880s , when the first modern vending machines were used, I would suspect the number of countries where terrorism had killed more people than soda machines, I suspect it would still stand true even though most countries have experienced terrorism during that time. Of course summing that all up would be rather hard / impossible.
dawnbreez 11y ago
The people who get the extra powers, of course; it makes them appear important, and ensures that they keep a steady, large paycheck. It's basically the Prisoner's Dilemma; they can screw us over for more money, and that aligns with their goals, so they do. The real problem is that, due to the way we vote, we're pretty much only letting people into office if they take the asshole choice in the first place.

lfam 11y ago

Do you have a citation for this? I'd love to share it with a friend of mine who is afraid of being a victim of terrorism in the US.

yoloswagins 11y ago
The statistic comes from Dr. Cosio, who looked at newspaper reports and talked to emergency room doctors. Unfortunately, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention don't keep track of vending machine deaths, so we're left with Dr. Cosio's less than perfect methods. Full paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1602339 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1602339
jimktrains2 11y ago
http://freakonomics.com/2011/09/08/how-are-sharks-less-dangerous-than-vending-machines-an-exercise-in-conditional-risk/ http://freakonomics.com/2011/09/08/how-are-sharks-less-dange... might be good? You could also remind them that ~90 people die every day from car crashes. Each month more people die from car crashes than have died in terrorist attacks on the US. A similar number of people (to the number that die in car crashes) die from gun violence in the US. Terrorism should realistically be so far down on someone's lists of cars that they shouldn't be able to justify any ounce of worry on it. Driving more cautiously would be a better use of the anxiety.
nickpsecurity 11y ago
Detailed data is here: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf I'm guessing terrorism is under one of the homicides. On most years, slips in bathtubs and bee stings kill more people than terrorists. Drowning, motor vehicles, chemical poisoning, half the crap in the grocery store, too much drugs/surgery... all sorts of things Americans aren't asking for censorship or intervention for that are what kill them en masse. Terrorism? That just kills freedom when we pass laws to stop it. Just as it's partly intended to. ;)
- joesmo 11y ago
  "Terrorism? That just kills freedom when we pass laws to stop it. Just as it's partly intended to." So true. I don't think even bin Laden himself could have dreamt of the amount of damage we would do to ourselves here in the US as a result of his attacks. The self-induced aftermath is worse than the actual carnage of the attacks themselves and seemingly has no end in sight. Just as it was intended to, but on a whole other, much larger scale, no doubt.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    What's bad is that it was predicted, albeit more severely, in a movie about terrorism called The Siege. Starred Denzel Washington and Bruce Willis. Had attacks, the cell model of operation, the cops (Denzel) unable to do stuff, and the military (Bruce) called in to declare martial law. Some of the stuff Denzel said in the movie apply to America today. I highly recommend it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLQOc-B0Ys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLQOc-B0Ys Note: Key difference is America became both a surveillance state and a dual state. Dual state is when two governments, public and secret, operate in parallel with one able to bend/break rules to hit certain targets. This model is less likely to cause a revolution given most people never see the other side of things.

meowface 11y ago

What about non-Western victims of terrorist attacks?

sdm 11y ago
Then would have to expand the other side of the comparison to include the whole world as well. It would not surprise me if the comparison remained true. There are likely only 5-10 countries in the world where terrorism has killed more people than soda machines falling over: especially with the 2001 date restriction. While there more than 200 countries depending on how you count. Even if you extended it to go back to the 1880s , when the first modern vending machines were used, I would suspect the number of countries where terrorism had killed more people than soda machines, I suspect it would still stand true even though most countries have experienced terrorism during that time. Of course summing that all up would be rather hard / impossible.

dawnbreez 11y ago

The people who get the extra powers, of course; it makes them appear important, and ensures that they keep a steady, large paycheck. It's basically the Prisoner's Dilemma; they can screw us over for more money, and that aligns with their goals, so they do. The real problem is that, due to the way we vote, we're pretty much only letting people into office if they take the asshole choice in the first place.