4 ms·

Really? I think it's far more likely the highway tunnel project will be completed than I will personally walk on Mars. I guess I'm new to the West coast and Se

Really? I think it's far more likely the highway tunnel project will be completed than I will personally walk on Mars. I guess I'm new to the West coast and Seattle area. What is it about this project that has everybody just flipping out of their minds?

CamperBob2 11y ago
The comments in the article actually do a pretty good job of conveying various points of view: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/bertha-restarts-after-two-years-of-delays/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/bert... I live north of King County, so I don't have any personal insights beyond what I've already posted. My main concern is how much responsibility the state will have to bear for cost overruns. SR99 is technically a state-level project, even though it has little relevance to anyone outside Seattle. It's safe to say Seattle will try very hard to make the rest of us pay for their mistakes.
- deciplex 11y ago
  It's safe to say Seattle will try very hard to make the rest of us pay for their mistakes. IIRC the people of Seattle and their government did not exactly push hard for the current plan? There was a referendum in which both the tunnel option and reinforcing the viaduct did not garner popular support, although reinforcement got more votes than a tunnel. I think in this case "it's safe to say everyone is going to have to pay for everyone's mistake" is more fair. And certainly SR99 has impact outside Seattle, since Seattle is a huge part of the WA economy and basically anything that has impact in Seattle, has impact in WA.
deciplex 11y ago
I haven't lived in Seattle for over a decade, so take the following with a grain of salt, but I was there for the earthquake that damaged the viaduct in the first place, and had followed another project which was winding down at that time, the outcome of which I think plays significantly into the frustration seen here on the part of Seattle residents. Basically, it's because it's the second project in two decades where the will of Seattle voters has been totally ignored in favor of moneyed interests and the state government fucking with (and fucking over) Seattle infrastructure. The first project which ended up (finally) with a pretty sorry excuse for a light rail system between downtown Seattle and the airport, was constructed only after intense lobbying against which was, for a time, a much more popular (and extensive) monorail project. Several referendums were conducted over the course of about seven or eight years starting in the mid-nineties, and they went something like this: 1. Referendum for light rail - passes. (much faffing about) 2. Referendum for monorail instead - passes. (faffing about) 3. Another referendum for monorail - passes. (faffing about) 4. Yet another fucking referendum for monorail - barely passes. (faffing about) 5. One last referendum to actually go ahead and, you know, build the damn thing, amidst heavy lobbying against - fails. And then Seattle gets a shitty light rail system that no one uses and hardly goes anywhere. Strangely, the moneyed interests that lobbied most against the monorail, become even more moneyed. And meanwhile, of course, other forms of public transportation i.e. buses have been allowed to rot. And then right at the tail end of that mess came the earthquake, and the pressing need to overhaul/replace the AWV, and pretty much all the same political fuckery came out and made a total mess of that process in pretty much the same fashion as it had public transport. I think, at the end of the day, there is a perception - and it is not totally incorrect - that there are a lot of registered voters in other parts of Washington State, particularly the eastern half of the state, who hate the Seattle metro area and the people who live there, and that this is reflected in the state government, and that when it comes time for infrastructure projects which will help to grow that part of the state which contributes most to Washington's economy, there is little political will in the state government to do the right thing. And so the success of Seattle is often in spite of the apathy, and occasionally even the active antipathy, of the rest of the state.

CamperBob2 11y ago

The comments in the article actually do a pretty good job of conveying various points of view: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/bertha-restarts-after-two-years-of-delays/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/bert... I live north of King County, so I don't have any personal insights beyond what I've already posted. My main concern is how much responsibility the state will have to bear for cost overruns. SR99 is technically a state-level project, even though it has little relevance to anyone outside Seattle. It's safe to say Seattle will try very hard to make the rest of us pay for their mistakes.

deciplex 11y ago
It's safe to say Seattle will try very hard to make the rest of us pay for their mistakes. IIRC the people of Seattle and their government did not exactly push hard for the current plan? There was a referendum in which both the tunnel option and reinforcing the viaduct did not garner popular support, although reinforcement got more votes than a tunnel. I think in this case "it's safe to say everyone is going to have to pay for everyone's mistake" is more fair. And certainly SR99 has impact outside Seattle, since Seattle is a huge part of the WA economy and basically anything that has impact in Seattle, has impact in WA.

deciplex 11y ago

I haven't lived in Seattle for over a decade, so take the following with a grain of salt, but I was there for the earthquake that damaged the viaduct in the first place, and had followed another project which was winding down at that time, the outcome of which I think plays significantly into the frustration seen here on the part of Seattle residents. Basically, it's because it's the second project in two decades where the will of Seattle voters has been totally ignored in favor of moneyed interests and the state government fucking with (and fucking over) Seattle infrastructure. The first project which ended up (finally) with a pretty sorry excuse for a light rail system between downtown Seattle and the airport, was constructed only after intense lobbying against which was, for a time, a much more popular (and extensive) monorail project. Several referendums were conducted over the course of about seven or eight years starting in the mid-nineties, and they went something like this: 1. Referendum for light rail - passes. (much faffing about) 2. Referendum for monorail instead - passes. (faffing about) 3. Another referendum for monorail - passes. (faffing about) 4. Yet another fucking referendum for monorail - barely passes. (faffing about) 5. One last referendum to actually go ahead and, you know, build the damn thing, amidst heavy lobbying against - fails. And then Seattle gets a shitty light rail system that no one uses and hardly goes anywhere. Strangely, the moneyed interests that lobbied most against the monorail, become even more moneyed. And meanwhile, of course, other forms of public transportation i.e. buses have been allowed to rot. And then right at the tail end of that mess came the earthquake, and the pressing need to overhaul/replace the AWV, and pretty much all the same political fuckery came out and made a total mess of that process in pretty much the same fashion as it had public transport. I think, at the end of the day, there is a perception - and it is not totally incorrect - that there are a lot of registered voters in other parts of Washington State, particularly the eastern half of the state, who hate the Seattle metro area and the people who live there, and that this is reflected in the state government, and that when it comes time for infrastructure projects which will help to grow that part of the state which contributes most to Washington's economy, there is little political will in the state government to do the right thing. And so the success of Seattle is often in spite of the apathy, and occasionally even the active antipathy, of the rest of the state.