10 ms·

Canonical/Yahoo revenue deal; Yahoo is the new Ubuntu search default

66 points by timf 17y ago

whyenot 17y ago
If it's making Canonical some money, that's great. It is easy enough to change the defaults to whatever you want after you install. It's a shame they couldn't cut a deal with a search engine that's actually useful, like Bing, though.
- gecko 17y ago
  Yahoo has already agreed to use Bing to power their search, so while I don't know whether that has already been implemented, you'll soon indirectly get your wish that they'll support Bing. The reason I find this unfortunate is that I'm still boycotting Yahoo over their treatment of Chinese political activists; a FOSS operating system using Yahoo as a search is something I therefore find highly odd.
- seldo 17y ago
  Well, it's a rev share, so it won't make them any money if you switch back to Google.
  - whyenot 17y ago
    Yes, and that's why it's a shame. I realize my message above was a little too cheeky and deserves the downvotes, but it's a legitimate concern. I want Canonical to have a firm financial footing, and I don't think this will help much.
- hristov 17y ago
  hahahaha ... good one.
jackowayed 17y ago
I wonder how much money they'll really get out of this. Even Ubuntu, the most user-friendly Linux (and please don't try to argue otherwise; that's not the point of this comment. Pretend I said "a very user-friendly Linux" if you have to), draws a pretty tech-savvy audience. I think the vast majority will make at most one search with Yahoo, realize they're using an inferior search engine, and then switch.
- cellis 17y ago
  more like ... hit ctrl k <search> + enter, realize they haven't set default to google, and switch :)
- anonjon 17y ago
  I think that the predominance of 'tech savvy' users in Linux (especially ubuntu) will change soon. This is only an anecdote, but when I whip out my ubuntu laptop, people don't say 'what's that' anymore, they say 'cool ubuntu, how is it?' Up until fairly recently you had to hack around with text files in shell in order to set up simple things like multiple monitors and proper sound support. That sort of stuff got a lot better with version 8, and with the current version, 9.10 i'd say that using Ubuntu is as easy as using windows (possibly easier). The only barrier currently is 'can i buy an OS disk in the store', and 'can I get a computer with it pre-installed'.
  - houseabsolute 17y ago
    Maybe. People have been thinking (wishing?) that the makeup would change, but that people believe Linux is close in usability to Windows or Mac is actually a barrier to that happening. And there's the whole "this probably doesn't work economically-speaking" thing. > people don't say 'what's that' anymore, they say 'cool ubuntu, how is it?' You and I must know different people. ;) I know that it's the dream that Linux will one day be predominant, but I've been hearing about how Ubuntu is going to change the landscape since 2006 when I started using it and it hasn't happened yet, nor is there any strong evidence that a trend is starting.
    - anonjon 17y ago
      Are you indicating that my belief that Ubuntu is close to the usability of Mac or Windows is false, or that being easy to use is a problem? Ubuntu certainly is very easy to use, Linux as a whole is not.
      - houseabsolute 17y ago
        > Are you indicating that my belief that Ubuntu is close to the usability of Mac or Windows is false, or that being easy to use is a problem? The former, of course. Being easy to use is wonderful and important. :)
bugs 17y ago
Ubuntu users hopefully are savvy enough to change the default search engine, one funky thing about firefox and ubuntu is that an extension is installed by default and can only be disable not removed by most users.
coderdude 17y ago
So obviously only for the money. Seriously, Ubuntu users -- people who willingly changed their operating system to get away from a crap product -- are not the same people who would choose Yahoo search over Google search. Good for Canonical to make some money (so long as that means more Ubuntu), but lame.
- Tichy 17y ago
  I am a Linux user and I routinely choose Yahoo search over Google search. The primary reason for me to switch was that Google insists on sending me to their German variant of search results. At the moment it has become quite convenient: if I want to search in English (most of the time), I use Yahoo, if I need German results, I just switch to Google with the said two clicks in "Chrome".
  - baltoo 17y ago
    I realize you probably already know this, and perhaps even don't need this, but I often use http://google.com/ncr http://google.com/ncr. The "/ncr" bit ensures that no localization redirection is done. (At least with regards to the language for the UI and search results. I don't know if advertising is adjusted.)
    - Tichy 17y ago
      I just wanted to try this with blocked cookies, and it seems FireFox doesn't even have the block cookies option anymore :-( Or I couldn't find it atm. I suspect it wouldn't work without cookies? Anyway, I used to block Google cookies but I have become lazy. Still, how would I configure the /ncr in the FF search field ("Chrome")? Overall I take it Google doesn't really want me as a customer, so whatever.
      - baltoo 17y ago
        I guess they use cookies, yes. Personally I'm an opera fan, so I haven't tried getting it to work but a quick search brought up: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/51000 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/51000, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/12625 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/12625 and https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/11551 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/11551 as plug-is. As for blocking cookies there are several options.
ghshephard 17y ago
The competitive landscape on search/browsers/os/user-engagement is getting fascinating: Mozilla, who doesn't have an operating system/distribution and therefore isn't the last team to touch an app, has a revenue distribution deal with Google by making them the default search engine of the firefox browser, which has a 25th percentage or so share of the browser market. Said Revenue Sharing deal, is now being undercut by Canonical, the Operating System Vendor, that uses the Firefox Browser, but who has now entered a revenue sharing deal with Yahoo, who uses Bing! as their search back-end. Bing! of course, is owned by the company that Canonical seeks to upend with its 2-3% market share in the Operating System Market. I wonder how Mozilla will feel about their "Branded" firefox browser having it's search engine (and revenue) reprogrammed to point at Yahoo by default? I wonder if they'll force Canonical into switching over to Ice Weasel? Google, has decided to create their own browser, and is now working on their own OS (a linux distro). Google has the ability to do a full stack integration (OS/Browser/Search) - But is weak in everything but Search in terms of market share. Apple, meanwhile, who has a both a Operating System, and Browser, and is now becoming increasingly competitive with Google, may be turning to Bing! for a revenue sharing deal on the browser. Apple has no search engine, has some (but not overpowering) share in the browser/OS market. Finally, there is Microsoft, who, continues to move along with Dominant Operating System and Browser share, and, slowly, increasing their small share (in the teens) of search (though mostly at the cost of Yahoo).
- seldo 17y ago
  If Microsoft were to announce tomorrow that they were shipping Windows with a copy of Firefox, but the default search engine was Bing, what would the reaction be?
  - wheels 17y ago
    Interestingly, it'd probably decimate Firefox since MS would no doubt feel no need to do a revenue share with Mozilla and Firefox users would feel no need to download a virgin Firefox, thus destroying Firefox's revenue stream.
    - 17y ago
wheels 17y ago
I don't think it's an accident that this announcement comes far away enough from the next release for there to be time for Google to make them a better offer. Even if that doesn't happen in the next release, this may be Canonical's way of showing their hand.
qeorge 17y ago
I'm surprised by this, given Google and Ubuntu's previous relationship with Goobuntu. Not that the two are mutually exclusive, but Google and Canonical do appear to have had some form of commercial relationship.
houseabsolute 17y ago
Solidifying my view that advertising is a plague, and it must be destroyed. It is the causal agent in so many anti-consumer decisions. Google or Yahoo or Microsoft or any of their agents (e.g. Canonical) need only do well enough not to piss off their current subscribers. To the extent that they manage that, they can encrappen their product with incorrect or useless shit in order to bring more revenue. You will get much better results if you pay for quality. It kind of makes me embarrassed to work for one of those companies I decried. At least I can rationalize it by noting that our results are the best and we're really bribing other actors to not make decisions that harm their users.
neilk 17y ago
I wonder if they considered Bing. In a few years, that's what it will be, just with sanitary purple branding to keep people's heads from exploding.
mindstab 17y ago
How does this help the users? Canonical is selling their user base to yahoo at the cost of user experience. This is kinda disappointing and shady.
- endtime 17y ago
  You're assuming everyone is better off with Google as a default search engine. Seems like a pretty strong assumption.
zang 17y ago
Not while Yahoo! actively collaborate with the Mainland Chinese Government to imprison Hong Kong citizens without even the courtesy of a warrant request - I could not look my grandchildren in the eye - I call them out as collaborators and frankly they should be shot or at least interned without trial - Yahoo are dead to me.
flashingpumpkin 17y ago
Noooo :(

66 points by timf 17y ago

If it's making Canonical some money, that's great. It is easy enough to change the defaults to whatever you want after you install. It's a shame they couldn't cut a deal with a search engine that's actually useful, like Bing, though.

gecko 17y ago
Yahoo has already agreed to use Bing to power their search, so while I don't know whether that has already been implemented, you'll soon indirectly get your wish that they'll support Bing. The reason I find this unfortunate is that I'm still boycotting Yahoo over their treatment of Chinese political activists; a FOSS operating system using Yahoo as a search is something I therefore find highly odd.
seldo 17y ago
Well, it's a rev share, so it won't make them any money if you switch back to Google.
- whyenot 17y ago
  Yes, and that's why it's a shame. I realize my message above was a little too cheeky and deserves the downvotes, but it's a legitimate concern. I want Canonical to have a firm financial footing, and I don't think this will help much.
hristov 17y ago
hahahaha ... good one.

jackowayed 17y ago

I wonder how much money they'll really get out of this. Even Ubuntu, the most user-friendly Linux (and please don't try to argue otherwise; that's not the point of this comment. Pretend I said "a very user-friendly Linux" if you have to), draws a pretty tech-savvy audience. I think the vast majority will make at most one search with Yahoo, realize they're using an inferior search engine, and then switch.

cellis 17y ago
more like ... hit ctrl k <search> + enter, realize they haven't set default to google, and switch :)
anonjon 17y ago
I think that the predominance of 'tech savvy' users in Linux (especially ubuntu) will change soon. This is only an anecdote, but when I whip out my ubuntu laptop, people don't say 'what's that' anymore, they say 'cool ubuntu, how is it?' Up until fairly recently you had to hack around with text files in shell in order to set up simple things like multiple monitors and proper sound support. That sort of stuff got a lot better with version 8, and with the current version, 9.10 i'd say that using Ubuntu is as easy as using windows (possibly easier). The only barrier currently is 'can i buy an OS disk in the store', and 'can I get a computer with it pre-installed'.
- houseabsolute 17y ago
  Maybe. People have been thinking (wishing?) that the makeup would change, but that people believe Linux is close in usability to Windows or Mac is actually a barrier to that happening. And there's the whole "this probably doesn't work economically-speaking" thing. > people don't say 'what's that' anymore, they say 'cool ubuntu, how is it?' You and I must know different people. ;) I know that it's the dream that Linux will one day be predominant, but I've been hearing about how Ubuntu is going to change the landscape since 2006 when I started using it and it hasn't happened yet, nor is there any strong evidence that a trend is starting.
  - anonjon 17y ago
    Are you indicating that my belief that Ubuntu is close to the usability of Mac or Windows is false, or that being easy to use is a problem? Ubuntu certainly is very easy to use, Linux as a whole is not.
    - houseabsolute 17y ago
      > Are you indicating that my belief that Ubuntu is close to the usability of Mac or Windows is false, or that being easy to use is a problem? The former, of course. Being easy to use is wonderful and important. :)

bugs 17y ago

Ubuntu users hopefully are savvy enough to change the default search engine, one funky thing about firefox and ubuntu is that an extension is installed by default and can only be disable not removed by most users.

coderdude 17y ago

So obviously only for the money. Seriously, Ubuntu users -- people who willingly changed their operating system to get away from a crap product -- are not the same people who would choose Yahoo search over Google search. Good for Canonical to make some money (so long as that means more Ubuntu), but lame.

Tichy 17y ago
I am a Linux user and I routinely choose Yahoo search over Google search. The primary reason for me to switch was that Google insists on sending me to their German variant of search results. At the moment it has become quite convenient: if I want to search in English (most of the time), I use Yahoo, if I need German results, I just switch to Google with the said two clicks in "Chrome".
- baltoo 17y ago
  I realize you probably already know this, and perhaps even don't need this, but I often use http://google.com/ncr http://google.com/ncr. The "/ncr" bit ensures that no localization redirection is done. (At least with regards to the language for the UI and search results. I don't know if advertising is adjusted.)
  - Tichy 17y ago
    I just wanted to try this with blocked cookies, and it seems FireFox doesn't even have the block cookies option anymore :-( Or I couldn't find it atm. I suspect it wouldn't work without cookies? Anyway, I used to block Google cookies but I have become lazy. Still, how would I configure the /ncr in the FF search field ("Chrome")? Overall I take it Google doesn't really want me as a customer, so whatever.
    - baltoo 17y ago
      I guess they use cookies, yes. Personally I'm an opera fan, so I haven't tried getting it to work but a quick search brought up: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/51000 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/51000, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/12625 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/12625 and https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/11551 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/11551 as plug-is. As for blocking cookies there are several options.

ghshephard 17y ago

The competitive landscape on search/browsers/os/user-engagement is getting fascinating: Mozilla, who doesn't have an operating system/distribution and therefore isn't the last team to touch an app, has a revenue distribution deal with Google by making them the default search engine of the firefox browser, which has a 25th percentage or so share of the browser market. Said Revenue Sharing deal, is now being undercut by Canonical, the Operating System Vendor, that uses the Firefox Browser, but who has now entered a revenue sharing deal with Yahoo, who uses Bing! as their search back-end. Bing! of course, is owned by the company that Canonical seeks to upend with its 2-3% market share in the Operating System Market. I wonder how Mozilla will feel about their "Branded" firefox browser having it's search engine (and revenue) reprogrammed to point at Yahoo by default? I wonder if they'll force Canonical into switching over to Ice Weasel? Google, has decided to create their own browser, and is now working on their own OS (a linux distro). Google has the ability to do a full stack integration (OS/Browser/Search) - But is weak in everything but Search in terms of market share. Apple, meanwhile, who has a both a Operating System, and Browser, and is now becoming increasingly competitive with Google, may be turning to Bing! for a revenue sharing deal on the browser. Apple has no search engine, has some (but not overpowering) share in the browser/OS market. Finally, there is Microsoft, who, continues to move along with Dominant Operating System and Browser share, and, slowly, increasing their small share (in the teens) of search (though mostly at the cost of Yahoo).

seldo 17y ago
If Microsoft were to announce tomorrow that they were shipping Windows with a copy of Firefox, but the default search engine was Bing, what would the reaction be?
- wheels 17y ago
  Interestingly, it'd probably decimate Firefox since MS would no doubt feel no need to do a revenue share with Mozilla and Firefox users would feel no need to download a virgin Firefox, thus destroying Firefox's revenue stream.
  - 17y ago

wheels 17y ago

I don't think it's an accident that this announcement comes far away enough from the next release for there to be time for Google to make them a better offer. Even if that doesn't happen in the next release, this may be Canonical's way of showing their hand.

qeorge 17y ago

I'm surprised by this, given Google and Ubuntu's previous relationship with Goobuntu. Not that the two are mutually exclusive, but Google and Canonical do appear to have had some form of commercial relationship.

houseabsolute 17y ago

Solidifying my view that advertising is a plague, and it must be destroyed. It is the causal agent in so many anti-consumer decisions. Google or Yahoo or Microsoft or any of their agents (e.g. Canonical) need only do well enough not to piss off their current subscribers. To the extent that they manage that, they can encrappen their product with incorrect or useless shit in order to bring more revenue. You will get much better results if you pay for quality. It kind of makes me embarrassed to work for one of those companies I decried. At least I can rationalize it by noting that our results are the best and we're really bribing other actors to not make decisions that harm their users.

neilk 17y ago

I wonder if they considered Bing. In a few years, that's what it will be, just with sanitary purple branding to keep people's heads from exploding.

mindstab 17y ago

How does this help the users? Canonical is selling their user base to yahoo at the cost of user experience. This is kinda disappointing and shady.

endtime 17y ago
You're assuming everyone is better off with Google as a default search engine. Seems like a pretty strong assumption.

zang 17y ago

Not while Yahoo! actively collaborate with the Mainland Chinese Government to imprison Hong Kong citizens without even the courtesy of a warrant request - I could not look my grandchildren in the eye - I call them out as collaborators and frankly they should be shot or at least interned without trial - Yahoo are dead to me.

flashingpumpkin 17y ago

Noooo :(