3 ms·

Why hipsters all look alike (2014)

51 points by hunglee2 11y ago

dang 11y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590347
JFlash 11y ago
My grievance with this article was glossed over in one paragraph: "In real life, there are a million ways to be nonconformist. You can be goth; you can be preppy; you can be grunge... "The brain is more complex than the model I looked at, and of course hipsters are more complex," he said." Yes, there are a lot of ways to not be a thing. That's kind of important to note when you're making sweeping generalizations about a group of people who aren't like you. The title of this article is completely bogus.
- woodchuck64 11y ago
  Are you saying all "nonconformists" are "hipsters"? If not, "hipster" must be an identifiable category of non-random nonconformist appearance, hence the title of the article.
  - wiml 11y ago
    "Hipsters all look alike because we have defined hipster as people having a specific look."
coned88 11y ago
Why is being a hipster seen as wanting to "oppose trends"? I would think all of thing things we associate with being a hipster. Those things are what attract these people and we later just called them hipsters to categorize. Hipsters aren't non conformists. They are conformists. The whole culture is the act in conforming to be like other hipsters.
- qbrass 11y ago
  They're opposing current trends because they want to follow the next trend. That makes them appear non-conformist to the general public, while they're conforming to other hipsters.
- ap22213 11y ago
  Is it just the hipsters that are the conformists? It seems like many of that generation are somewhat more conformist than I'm comfortable with.
- parasubvert 11y ago
  That's taking nonconformity to an absurd level. Most everyone is a conformist at some level, because we are social creatures that have our sub-cultures that help shape our identity, for better or worse. There are very few people that make their own clothes from raw material, people have to buy the cloth or the clothing itself from somewhere. Of course this tends towards clustering as the mainstream is by definition pretty broad, so it is visually easy to group together "people who wear weird/retro/custom clothes and hair styles" together. Yet if you polled hipsters, I'd bet a wide diversity on other opinions/tastes in music, art, film, issues. This goes for many sub-cultures, from goths, to metal heads, to punks, to yuppies or Bobos. Everyone mixes non-conformity at some level with conformity, especially when they link their tastes and opinions with their identity. Hipsters just happen to want to be identified for their non-conformity which is what makes them annoying to many people, as this rejects the value of a thing based on its relative popularity. We've seen elements of this in the past with Rock music fan's accusation of "sellouts" which is somewhat unique among music genres but makes total sense when the identity of being "Rock", for a portion of the fan base anyway, is to be in rebellion against The Man (with money and power). Hipsterism just takes this to the next level, valuing the relative obscurity of a thing above all other qualities. Except with the Internet, it's easy to find obscure things and popularize them... Among hipsters anyway. Leading us back to clustering.
dschiptsov 11y ago
Cargo cult. Especially these ridiculous beards.. BTW, hipsterism per se is a role-playing, role-governed behavior. Cosplay if you wish. It is a way of looking "smart and nonconforming" instead of actually being, because being is much more difficult that following some style. The difference is like between guys like Alan Kay, Marvin Minsky, Peter Norvig, David Moon, to name a few, versus hipster blogrammers.
- askafriend 11y ago
  What's the reason for having such a harsh tone towards a preferred personal styling?
- n72 11y ago
  As with just about everything, the original hipsters of the trucker hats were non-conformist. There was a certain risk of ridicule they were taking for being hipsters in, what, 1998? Now, however, there's absolutely no risk to being a hipster. It's not a counter cultural movement, they're not objecting to anything worth objecting to, and they're not going out on any kind of limb. At this point it's just a kind of lame, conformism wishing that it weren't.
mbenjaminsmith 11y ago
Humorous intent aside, I think the fundamental error here is the author(s) conflating a trend with the counter culture of yore. The hipsters of today do not follow from the counter culture of the 60s nor the punk movement that followed. They're not non-conformist nor do they have an internal set of political beliefs. They're just people dressing a certain way -- often combined with an excessively groomed beard in the case of men. The only sense that they're a group or movement is that they may share socio-economic status, cf. the yuppies of the 80s. Though the beards do crack me up, I don't think this group deserves any more derision than any collection of (young) people struggling to find Heideggerian authenticity. Growing up I saw the same struggle in arguably more authentic subcultures like punk and skateboarding.
meesterdude 11y ago
This is certainly interesting mathematically; might even have some truths to it for people. But I found motive to be a glaring oversight, when approached from a human level. It took a very black & white approach of conformist/nonconformist and why someone might or might not wear something. Among them: 1) Some people don't care 2) Some people wear what other people buy them 3) Some people wear what they can afford 4) Some people wear what they can find 5) Some people have different looks/outfits Also, I feel you could say the same thing about goths/punks/skaters or any other subculture. I'm not trying to discredit the math, or the authors intentions. It's a fun thing to ponder, with real implications to be had. But if you were hoping to REALLY understand why all hipsters look alike, this simply does not go far enough to truly answer that. But as a foundation for a mathematical model, it's relevant and enjoyable.
karmakaze 11y ago
Hipsters are a phenomenon which I find intriguing, and possibly concerning. The article does propose a credible explanation as an emergent property. Reminds me of the day Alternative officially became a music genre.

51 points by hunglee2 11y ago

dang 11y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590347

My grievance with this article was glossed over in one paragraph: "In real life, there are a million ways to be nonconformist. You can be goth; you can be preppy; you can be grunge... "The brain is more complex than the model I looked at, and of course hipsters are more complex," he said." Yes, there are a lot of ways to not be a thing. That's kind of important to note when you're making sweeping generalizations about a group of people who aren't like you. The title of this article is completely bogus.

woodchuck64 11y ago
Are you saying all "nonconformists" are "hipsters"? If not, "hipster" must be an identifiable category of non-random nonconformist appearance, hence the title of the article.
- wiml 11y ago
  "Hipsters all look alike because we have defined hipster as people having a specific look."

coned88 11y ago

Why is being a hipster seen as wanting to "oppose trends"? I would think all of thing things we associate with being a hipster. Those things are what attract these people and we later just called them hipsters to categorize. Hipsters aren't non conformists. They are conformists. The whole culture is the act in conforming to be like other hipsters.

qbrass 11y ago
They're opposing current trends because they want to follow the next trend. That makes them appear non-conformist to the general public, while they're conforming to other hipsters.
ap22213 11y ago
Is it just the hipsters that are the conformists? It seems like many of that generation are somewhat more conformist than I'm comfortable with.
parasubvert 11y ago
That's taking nonconformity to an absurd level. Most everyone is a conformist at some level, because we are social creatures that have our sub-cultures that help shape our identity, for better or worse. There are very few people that make their own clothes from raw material, people have to buy the cloth or the clothing itself from somewhere. Of course this tends towards clustering as the mainstream is by definition pretty broad, so it is visually easy to group together "people who wear weird/retro/custom clothes and hair styles" together. Yet if you polled hipsters, I'd bet a wide diversity on other opinions/tastes in music, art, film, issues. This goes for many sub-cultures, from goths, to metal heads, to punks, to yuppies or Bobos. Everyone mixes non-conformity at some level with conformity, especially when they link their tastes and opinions with their identity. Hipsters just happen to want to be identified for their non-conformity which is what makes them annoying to many people, as this rejects the value of a thing based on its relative popularity. We've seen elements of this in the past with Rock music fan's accusation of "sellouts" which is somewhat unique among music genres but makes total sense when the identity of being "Rock", for a portion of the fan base anyway, is to be in rebellion against The Man (with money and power). Hipsterism just takes this to the next level, valuing the relative obscurity of a thing above all other qualities. Except with the Internet, it's easy to find obscure things and popularize them... Among hipsters anyway. Leading us back to clustering.

dschiptsov 11y ago

Cargo cult. Especially these ridiculous beards.. BTW, hipsterism per se is a role-playing, role-governed behavior. Cosplay if you wish. It is a way of looking "smart and nonconforming" instead of actually being, because being is much more difficult that following some style. The difference is like between guys like Alan Kay, Marvin Minsky, Peter Norvig, David Moon, to name a few, versus hipster blogrammers.

askafriend 11y ago
What's the reason for having such a harsh tone towards a preferred personal styling?
n72 11y ago
As with just about everything, the original hipsters of the trucker hats were non-conformist. There was a certain risk of ridicule they were taking for being hipsters in, what, 1998? Now, however, there's absolutely no risk to being a hipster. It's not a counter cultural movement, they're not objecting to anything worth objecting to, and they're not going out on any kind of limb. At this point it's just a kind of lame, conformism wishing that it weren't.

mbenjaminsmith 11y ago

Humorous intent aside, I think the fundamental error here is the author(s) conflating a trend with the counter culture of yore. The hipsters of today do not follow from the counter culture of the 60s nor the punk movement that followed. They're not non-conformist nor do they have an internal set of political beliefs. They're just people dressing a certain way -- often combined with an excessively groomed beard in the case of men. The only sense that they're a group or movement is that they may share socio-economic status, cf. the yuppies of the 80s. Though the beards do crack me up, I don't think this group deserves any more derision than any collection of (young) people struggling to find Heideggerian authenticity. Growing up I saw the same struggle in arguably more authentic subcultures like punk and skateboarding.

meesterdude 11y ago

This is certainly interesting mathematically; might even have some truths to it for people. But I found motive to be a glaring oversight, when approached from a human level. It took a very black & white approach of conformist/nonconformist and why someone might or might not wear something. Among them: 1) Some people don't care 2) Some people wear what other people buy them 3) Some people wear what they can afford 4) Some people wear what they can find 5) Some people have different looks/outfits Also, I feel you could say the same thing about goths/punks/skaters or any other subculture. I'm not trying to discredit the math, or the authors intentions. It's a fun thing to ponder, with real implications to be had. But if you were hoping to REALLY understand why all hipsters look alike, this simply does not go far enough to truly answer that. But as a foundation for a mathematical model, it's relevant and enjoyable.

karmakaze 11y ago

Hipsters are a phenomenon which I find intriguing, and possibly concerning. The article does propose a credible explanation as an emergent property. Reminds me of the day Alternative officially became a music genre.