8 ms·

Ironically, much of the personnel involved in the U.S. drone program lives and works stateside, among the civilian population.

by rdancer 11y ago

omonra 11y ago
Yet no muslim terrorist has accidentally killed innocent civilians when targeting drone operators, have they? They rather simply always target innocent civilians.
- lolc 11y ago
  Many definitions of terrorism require targeting civilians. So your statements are trivially true. There have been attacks on people in uniform by people identifying as Muslims. These were labeled as terrorist attacks too, so your second statement is not true if you follow the broader definition. One wrong does not justify another, unless of course you decide to follow their logic.
  - omonra 11y ago
    We were talking about drone operators as being equivalent targets to whoever Americans blow up with drone (with concomitant collateral damage). I pointed out that no muslim terrorists have killed people while attempting to kill drone operators (or other specifically targeted military personnel). And why jump through verbal hoops with 'people identifying as Muslims'. Don't we have a word for that - 'muslims'? Is there any chance of someone not being sure if you are talking about people or goats, thus the need for further clarification?
    - SixSigma 11y ago
      You should walk round tumblr and see all the otherkin people "identify" as. We don't count any of them as wolves or mermaids.
      - omonra 11y ago
        But that's because we don't consider it sufficient for someone to identify as a woolf or mermaid to be one. Whereas if someone identifies as a Christian/Jew/Buddhist or whatever - that's sufficient reason for everybody to accept that.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      It's pretty handy to seperate out a tiny number (maybe 200,000 people) of terrorists from the much larger group of non-terrorist Muslims. Like we don't talk about the Christian terrorists killing doctors in the US, we use other language to describe them.
    - lolc 11y ago
      > I pointed out that no muslim terrorists have killed people while attempting to kill drone operators (or other specifically targeted military personnel). I don't see how this is relevant. We already accept that terrorism is not justifiable, we're discussing whether drone strikes are terrorism. > And why jump through verbal hoops with 'people identifying as Muslims'. Because being Muslim is not a terrorist's defining characteristic. One defining characteristic would be a disregard for human life.
      - omonra 11y ago
        >I don't see how this is relevant. We already accept that terrorism is not justifiable, we're discussing whether drone strikes are terrorism. I replied to this comment "Ironically, much of the personnel involved in the U.S. drone program lives and works stateside, among the civilian population." My point is that the fact that drone operators live among civilian population makes no difference since no muslim (or otherwise) terrorists have tried to attack them, thus killing innocents as collateral damage - which is how civilians in Afghanistan or Pakistan are killed. >Because being Muslim is not a terrorist's defining characteristic. One defining characteristic would be a disregard for human life. So why are they 'people identifying as Muslims' instead of 'muslims'? Are other muslims refusing to accept them as muslim? Separately, their religious identity is their defining characteristic. Same way that communists' who killed millions in Russia and China political affiliation was fundamental to their identity. While we probably can't say this about middle east civil war participants, the muslim terrorists who kill people in the West are driven primarily by their religion. If they weren't, they would be small-time crooks or drug dealers at worst. Somehow their religion turned them into murderous psychopaths - let's not beat around the bush here.
        lolc 11y ago
        > I replied to this comment "Ironically, much of the personnel involved in the U.S. drone program lives and works stateside, among the civilian population." I think that comment was meant to convey that drone operators are hard to reach for your average terrorist. Why is it important to state that 'Muslim' terrorists have only attacked civilians so far? (A claim that is not true as I've pointed out before.) > Somehow their religion turned them into murderous psychopaths 'Somehow' some people get turned into murderous psychopaths by religion and some others do not. Is that the depth of your analysis?

Ironically, much of the personnel involved in the U.S. drone program lives and works stateside, among the civilian population.

by rdancer 11y ago

Ironically, much of the personnel involved in the U.S. drone program lives and works stateside, among the civilian population.

omonra 11y ago

Yet no muslim terrorist has accidentally killed innocent civilians when targeting drone operators, have they? They rather simply always target innocent civilians.

lolc 11y ago
Many definitions of terrorism require targeting civilians. So your statements are trivially true. There have been attacks on people in uniform by people identifying as Muslims. These were labeled as terrorist attacks too, so your second statement is not true if you follow the broader definition. One wrong does not justify another, unless of course you decide to follow their logic.
- omonra 11y ago
  We were talking about drone operators as being equivalent targets to whoever Americans blow up with drone (with concomitant collateral damage). I pointed out that no muslim terrorists have killed people while attempting to kill drone operators (or other specifically targeted military personnel). And why jump through verbal hoops with 'people identifying as Muslims'. Don't we have a word for that - 'muslims'? Is there any chance of someone not being sure if you are talking about people or goats, thus the need for further clarification?
  - SixSigma 11y ago
    You should walk round tumblr and see all the otherkin people "identify" as. We don't count any of them as wolves or mermaids.
    - omonra 11y ago
      But that's because we don't consider it sufficient for someone to identify as a woolf or mermaid to be one. Whereas if someone identifies as a Christian/Jew/Buddhist or whatever - that's sufficient reason for everybody to accept that.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    It's pretty handy to seperate out a tiny number (maybe 200,000 people) of terrorists from the much larger group of non-terrorist Muslims. Like we don't talk about the Christian terrorists killing doctors in the US, we use other language to describe them.
  - lolc 11y ago
    > I pointed out that no muslim terrorists have killed people while attempting to kill drone operators (or other specifically targeted military personnel). I don't see how this is relevant. We already accept that terrorism is not justifiable, we're discussing whether drone strikes are terrorism. > And why jump through verbal hoops with 'people identifying as Muslims'. Because being Muslim is not a terrorist's defining characteristic. One defining characteristic would be a disregard for human life.
    - omonra 11y ago
      >I don't see how this is relevant. We already accept that terrorism is not justifiable, we're discussing whether drone strikes are terrorism. I replied to this comment "Ironically, much of the personnel involved in the U.S. drone program lives and works stateside, among the civilian population." My point is that the fact that drone operators live among civilian population makes no difference since no muslim (or otherwise) terrorists have tried to attack them, thus killing innocents as collateral damage - which is how civilians in Afghanistan or Pakistan are killed. >Because being Muslim is not a terrorist's defining characteristic. One defining characteristic would be a disregard for human life. So why are they 'people identifying as Muslims' instead of 'muslims'? Are other muslims refusing to accept them as muslim? Separately, their religious identity is their defining characteristic. Same way that communists' who killed millions in Russia and China political affiliation was fundamental to their identity. While we probably can't say this about middle east civil war participants, the muslim terrorists who kill people in the West are driven primarily by their religion. If they weren't, they would be small-time crooks or drug dealers at worst. Somehow their religion turned them into murderous psychopaths - let's not beat around the bush here.
      - lolc 11y ago
        > I replied to this comment "Ironically, much of the personnel involved in the U.S. drone program lives and works stateside, among the civilian population." I think that comment was meant to convey that drone operators are hard to reach for your average terrorist. Why is it important to state that 'Muslim' terrorists have only attacked civilians so far? (A claim that is not true as I've pointed out before.) > Somehow their religion turned them into murderous psychopaths 'Somehow' some people get turned into murderous psychopaths by religion and some others do not. Is that the depth of your analysis?