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The article seems to imply there is real malice and deliberate intent to deceive the public in the media coverage of civilian victims of Western attacks. This i

by avz 11y ago

The article seems to imply there is real malice and deliberate intent to deceive the public in the media coverage of civilian victims of Western attacks. This is one explanation, but I don't see conclusive evidence of this in the article. More probable explanation is that viewing public's sympathy suffers from inherent biases and the media simply follows those biases. It's a well-known fact that media prefers headlines that are more likely to trigger emotional response. Also non-Western civilian victims have been a lot more frequent and the media has a bias towards reporting events that stand out such as unintentional killing of Western hostages by a drone strike. (Not claiming this outcome is moral - just saying that it may unfortunately arise without malicious intent on the part of the media)

rdancer 11y ago
If it were so, if the public were aware of the reality at least in broad strokes, and if the media simply just didn't report on things everybody knew were going on... how would you explain the outcry after the Bataclan shooting that "they attacked us", and "now we're at war" -- while that same morning, just as every morning in the preceding month, French Mirages rained death on Syria? How would you explain the ludicrous notion that our soldiers and officials, when they are killed on our soil, are victims of terrorism, not casualties of the war we choose to wage? Perhaps it is because quite to the contrary, the public doesn't think we're at war at all. We're just killing off terrorists who aim to harm us, with surgical, precision strikes.
- soared 11y ago
  Because the middle east is not "we" while France and the rest of Europe most definitely is "us." And war is going on in Syria, so a death that occurs in the homeland isn't a casualty of war, because the war isn't occurring here. Its over there. Deaths here are caused by terrorism, deaths there are caused by war.
thephyber 11y ago
> but I don't see conclusive evidence of this in the article. You are talking about something which is usually kept secret within the "state secrets" cabinet. Your expectations seem misconfigured for this topic. There's no way the CIA/DOJ/FBI would willingly allow that level of information to make it into wide circulation and the current administration has gone to unprecedented lengths to prevent further leaks. I tend to agree with you that the media news coverage in the US tends to focus mostly on certain specific military attacks (where the US government claims we either hit or believe we hit a "top leader" in whatever group) or where the US military strike was on bad/stale information (eg. we killed western hostages or a Doctors without Borders hospital in Afghanistan). I am not conflating drone strikes with other military strikes -- I am combining them because I see them as part of the same issue. I tend to see the media as willingly reporting only what little information is available from the only source, the White House via the US military. Journalists are reporting one very biased side of the story without making any significant effort to find other sources (because there usually are none). From a journalistic ethics standpoint, this _is_ malicious. I view US drone strikes "on terrorists" within a context of (what I believe to be) known information about our CIA drone strikes (which, granted might be outdated or otherwise inaccurate and is basically unverifiable): * "signature strikes" are designed to attack targets based on data points without knowing their identity * a "double tap" strike is when first responders are attacked immediately after a previous attack on the assumption that they know who was killed and care about the terrorist target and not the innocent victims of the first strike * weddings, funerals, and other public gatherings are attacked on the probability that terrorist or terrorist sympathizers will attend * an "enemy combatant" is any male of combat age (15-50, IIRC) [1] -- this is especially troublesome for US propaganda. See [1] for "deliberate intent to deceive the public in the media coverage of civilian victims of Western attacks". It might not even be "conclusive evidence", but I still think that standard is too high for any topic which is covered by national security where we will always be in an information "fog of war". These items are all claimed / documented characterizations of CIA (or JSOC or other similar US government/intelligence/military agency) attacks, but clearly not verifiable (the nature of state secrets). They were all covered by the movie Good Kill[2] (Ethan Hawke plays a drone pilot in Nevada dealing with the human consequences of being a killer in the drone war). [1] http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/ http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/ [2]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3297330/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3297330/
tdyen 11y ago
But as a reporter or editor you could choose to highlight the deaths of innocents such as children to raise moral outrage, generate click bait etc and yet they don't. There often is an implicit bias in the reporters and editors themselves. Whether malicious, that's another question.
lolc 11y ago
How convenient! Our biases comfort our ignorance. And yes there is malice. If you seek to hide civilian casualties your excuse cannot be the disinterest of the deceived. The lies which hide drone terror by framing it as a war, these lies cause great human suffering by prolonging the inexcusable. How could the assumption of "all adult males killed must have been guilty" not be evidence of deception? Even if we were so innocent of the situation to assume politicians are lying to protect us, they would still be lying. I don't know your ethics but mine do not encompass knowingly spreading lies. Especially when it's done to protect one's position. A position of great power, I must add. Journalists have the means to uncover these lies. When they choose to spread them instead, because this is the easier option, they become complicit. It may not be malice in the sense of "evil for the sake of it" but I wouldn't set the bar down there.

by avz 11y ago

rdancer 11y ago

If it were so, if the public were aware of the reality at least in broad strokes, and if the media simply just didn't report on things everybody knew were going on... how would you explain the outcry after the Bataclan shooting that "they attacked us", and "now we're at war" -- while that same morning, just as every morning in the preceding month, French Mirages rained death on Syria? How would you explain the ludicrous notion that our soldiers and officials, when they are killed on our soil, are victims of terrorism, not casualties of the war we choose to wage? Perhaps it is because quite to the contrary, the public doesn't think we're at war at all. We're just killing off terrorists who aim to harm us, with surgical, precision strikes.

soared 11y ago
Because the middle east is not "we" while France and the rest of Europe most definitely is "us." And war is going on in Syria, so a death that occurs in the homeland isn't a casualty of war, because the war isn't occurring here. Its over there. Deaths here are caused by terrorism, deaths there are caused by war.

thephyber 11y ago

> but I don't see conclusive evidence of this in the article. You are talking about something which is usually kept secret within the "state secrets" cabinet. Your expectations seem misconfigured for this topic. There's no way the CIA/DOJ/FBI would willingly allow that level of information to make it into wide circulation and the current administration has gone to unprecedented lengths to prevent further leaks. I tend to agree with you that the media news coverage in the US tends to focus mostly on certain specific military attacks (where the US government claims we either hit or believe we hit a "top leader" in whatever group) or where the US military strike was on bad/stale information (eg. we killed western hostages or a Doctors without Borders hospital in Afghanistan). I am not conflating drone strikes with other military strikes -- I am combining them because I see them as part of the same issue. I tend to see the media as willingly reporting only what little information is available from the only source, the White House via the US military. Journalists are reporting one very biased side of the story without making any significant effort to find other sources (because there usually are none). From a journalistic ethics standpoint, this _is_ malicious. I view US drone strikes "on terrorists" within a context of (what I believe to be) known information about our CIA drone strikes (which, granted might be outdated or otherwise inaccurate and is basically unverifiable): * "signature strikes" are designed to attack targets based on data points without knowing their identity * a "double tap" strike is when first responders are attacked immediately after a previous attack on the assumption that they know who was killed and care about the terrorist target and not the innocent victims of the first strike * weddings, funerals, and other public gatherings are attacked on the probability that terrorist or terrorist sympathizers will attend * an "enemy combatant" is any male of combat age (15-50, IIRC) [1] -- this is especially troublesome for US propaganda. See [1] for "deliberate intent to deceive the public in the media coverage of civilian victims of Western attacks". It might not even be "conclusive evidence", but I still think that standard is too high for any topic which is covered by national security where we will always be in an information "fog of war". These items are all claimed / documented characterizations of CIA (or JSOC or other similar US government/intelligence/military agency) attacks, but clearly not verifiable (the nature of state secrets). They were all covered by the movie Good Kill[2] (Ethan Hawke plays a drone pilot in Nevada dealing with the human consequences of being a killer in the drone war). [1] http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/ http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/ [2]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3297330/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3297330/

tdyen 11y ago

But as a reporter or editor you could choose to highlight the deaths of innocents such as children to raise moral outrage, generate click bait etc and yet they don't. There often is an implicit bias in the reporters and editors themselves. Whether malicious, that's another question.

lolc 11y ago

How convenient! Our biases comfort our ignorance. And yes there is malice. If you seek to hide civilian casualties your excuse cannot be the disinterest of the deceived. The lies which hide drone terror by framing it as a war, these lies cause great human suffering by prolonging the inexcusable. How could the assumption of "all adult males killed must have been guilty" not be evidence of deception? Even if we were so innocent of the situation to assume politicians are lying to protect us, they would still be lying. I don't know your ethics but mine do not encompass knowingly spreading lies. Especially when it's done to protect one's position. A position of great power, I must add. Journalists have the means to uncover these lies. When they choose to spread them instead, because this is the easier option, they become complicit. It may not be malice in the sense of "evil for the sake of it" but I wouldn't set the bar down there.