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> someone will crawl out From a mine shaft, I hope. Please encourage your daughter to follow the dream she doesn't know she has, yet, and go take her rightful

> someone will crawl out From a mine shaft, I hope. Please encourage your daughter to follow the dream she doesn't know she has, yet, and go take her rightful place in the mine with colleagues that mirror perfectly the composition of the general population. She'll thank you later.

austinjp 11y ago
Your previous point extolled opportunity over representation, but this comment seems to suggest that opportunity itself can sometimes be inappropriate, and hence harmful. Or have I misunderstood?
- stefantalpalaru 11y ago
  What I was lampooning is not simple opportunity, but downright manipulation, as benevolent as it may seem. That's the difference between allowing a child and encouraging/cajoling them to do something. When you mount a huge campaign to get girls to code, even if they are not interested, are you doing the former or the latter? What about when you do the same for hiring more women in certain areas? Or for getting more women presenters in certain technical conferences? And if we as a community decided that we should feel bad for being interested in things that overwhelmingly attract males, why not extrapolate the proposed solution? Maybe it gets absurd enough that we realize it's been wrong all this time.
  - raiph 11y ago
    > downright manipulation ... huge campaign ... get girls to code, even if they are not interested ... decided that we should feel bad ... things that overwhelmingly attract males ... why not extrapolate That's an impressive amount of speculating. > Maybe it gets absurd enough that we realize Indeed.
    - stefantalpalaru 11y ago
      > That's an impressive amount of speculating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_Who_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_Who_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Girls_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Girls_Code https://www.womentechmakers.com/ https://www.womentechmakers.com/ http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/ct-facebook-techprep-bsi-20151020-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/ct-facebook-... https://hackbrightacademy.com/about/ https://hackbrightacademy.com/about/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/ostp/women https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/ostp/women
      - raiph 11y ago
        My apologies. I had assumed that what you were talking about had something to do with either Perl 6 or Camelia.
DanBC 11y ago
IHBT. https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=stefantalpalaru https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=stefantalpalaru > Favorite moderator quote: dang, 12 Jul 2015: "Your account has violated the HN guidelines countless times, yet we've stopped short of banning you. We're not going to keep doing that. Kindly follow the rules from now on."
- stefantalpalaru 11y ago
  You haven't been trolled, you've been failed by your lack of control over your own emotions. Try using reason, next time when you're faced with an opinion you don't agree with.
  - dang 11y ago
    You've slipped back into breaking the HN guidelines regularly. That's dismaying, since you did a fair job of eliminating this for a while. Please eliminate it.
    - stefantalpalaru 11y ago
      And I was wondering why the sudden drop in silly points. You went through my comment history and downvoted them, didn't you? Oh, my most sincere apologies, I forgot we mere mortals cannot talk about moderation in public. Can you find it in your moderator heart to forgive your humble subject?

austinjp 11y ago

Your previous point extolled opportunity over representation, but this comment seems to suggest that opportunity itself can sometimes be inappropriate, and hence harmful. Or have I misunderstood?

stefantalpalaru 11y ago
What I was lampooning is not simple opportunity, but downright manipulation, as benevolent as it may seem. That's the difference between allowing a child and encouraging/cajoling them to do something. When you mount a huge campaign to get girls to code, even if they are not interested, are you doing the former or the latter? What about when you do the same for hiring more women in certain areas? Or for getting more women presenters in certain technical conferences? And if we as a community decided that we should feel bad for being interested in things that overwhelmingly attract males, why not extrapolate the proposed solution? Maybe it gets absurd enough that we realize it's been wrong all this time.
- raiph 11y ago
  > downright manipulation ... huge campaign ... get girls to code, even if they are not interested ... decided that we should feel bad ... things that overwhelmingly attract males ... why not extrapolate That's an impressive amount of speculating. > Maybe it gets absurd enough that we realize Indeed.
  - stefantalpalaru 11y ago
    > That's an impressive amount of speculating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_Who_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_Who_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Girls_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Girls_Code https://www.womentechmakers.com/ https://www.womentechmakers.com/ http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/ct-facebook-techprep-bsi-20151020-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/ct-facebook-... https://hackbrightacademy.com/about/ https://hackbrightacademy.com/about/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/ostp/women https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/ostp/women
    - raiph 11y ago
      My apologies. I had assumed that what you were talking about had something to do with either Perl 6 or Camelia.

DanBC 11y ago

IHBT. https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=stefantalpalaru https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=stefantalpalaru > Favorite moderator quote: dang, 12 Jul 2015: "Your account has violated the HN guidelines countless times, yet we've stopped short of banning you. We're not going to keep doing that. Kindly follow the rules from now on."

stefantalpalaru 11y ago
You haven't been trolled, you've been failed by your lack of control over your own emotions. Try using reason, next time when you're faced with an opinion you don't agree with.
- dang 11y ago
  You've slipped back into breaking the HN guidelines regularly. That's dismaying, since you did a fair job of eliminating this for a while. Please eliminate it.
  - stefantalpalaru 11y ago
    And I was wondering why the sudden drop in silly points. You went through my comment history and downvoted them, didn't you? Oh, my most sincere apologies, I forgot we mere mortals cannot talk about moderation in public. Can you find it in your moderator heart to forgive your humble subject?