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Facebook Anonymous Login is definitely a step in the right direction to address those concerns. And yet it's hardly adopted anywhere. I think you're underestim

Facebook Anonymous Login is definitely a step in the right direction to address those concerns. And yet it's hardly adopted anywhere. I think you're underestimating the importance of Facebook information towards making viable free content. The basic, accurate information you receive from the FB SDK really helps salespeople identify qualified leads for trial-to-paid conversions; the info also can be used to tell you what other websites people visit or software they use. This really helps make sales and improve your software in a way that seems generally net positive for consumers and producers.

scrollaway 11y ago
And the moment Facebook decides to shut down? Or worse, the moment they start abusing their position as your identity provider?
SwellJoe 11y ago
"I think you're underestimating the importance of Facebook information towards making viable free content. The basic, accurate information you receive from the FB SDK really helps salespeople identify qualified leads for trial-to-paid conversions; the info also can be used to tell you what other websites people visit or software they use." I generally consider this kind of information warehousing and sharing unethical. While I understand the business case for it, and I understand that facebook has permission from their users because of the ToS agreement, I don't want to inflict it on my customers (who are often Open Source and Free software nerds who take their security somewhat seriously). I am a facebook user, but I don't like what facebook does to privacy. Google, same story. So, I view participating in those login systems as low-grade evil, as it contributes to the incredible stockpile of data facebook and Google have about all of us. I don't make a big deal about it, and I use sites that require it, but I don't have to like it. And, if there were a way for me to provide a similarly nice user experience to my customers without invading their privacy in any way, I would do so.
deno 11y ago
Facebook’s “Anonymous Login” doesn’t protect you in any way from Facebook, it’s for hiding information Facebook owns about your life from other websites. So it doesn’t help with this: >The basic, accurate information you receive from the FB SDK really helps salespeople identify qualified leads for trial-to-paid conversions; the info also can be used to tell you what other websites people visit or software they use. This really helps make sales and improve your software in a way that seems generally net positive for consumers and producers. but does nothing at all to protect your privacy. > And yet it's hardly adopted anywhere. That’s because it’s Public Relations. Just like their TOR gateway. Just like Zuckerberg’s LLC “charity.” Just like everything else they do[1]. “Steps in the right direction” is the signature move of modern corporate PR. [1] http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/258060-advocate-accuses-facebook-of-secretly-lobbying-for-cyber-bill http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/258060-advocate-accu...
stickfigure 11y ago
Facebook Anonymous Login is a menace to the open internet. As a website operator, these are no longer your users, they're Facebook's users, and Facebook can take them away from you at any time. As a user, these are no longer your website accounts, they're Facebook's website accounts, and Facebook can take them away from you at any time. Putting Facebook in complete control of identity is not healthy for anyone. At least when you get email addresses from Facebook, you can bootstrap an independent relationship with your customers if necessary. From the user's perspective: If Facebook blocks your account, the website operator can still validate your ownership with the email address.
- something2324 11y ago
  "and Facebook can take them away from you at any time" Have they actually done that to any website? That would undermine their whole system. They'd do that once and everyone would leave their service. That's like saying "Well Google could publish all your emails! So you definitely shouldn't trust your emails to Google"
  - stickfigure 11y ago
    Have they actually done that to any website? Absolutely. Facebook freezes application ids all the time, mostly for what you or I would consider "good reasons" (spam, fraud, abuse, etc). Has it ever happened for less noble reasons, or grey zones? Do you want to bet that this will never be the case? How long is your time horizon? Facebook frequently freezes user accounts for all sorts of reasons. Maybe their name doesn't exactly match what's on their state issued ID. Maybe the art nude selfie they posted pissed off the censors. Maybe they expressed an unpopular political opinion. Maybe their name matches somebody on a sex offender list. Maybe they just got tripped up by an over-exuberant fraud bot. I remember when Microsoft was the good guy and IBM was the bad guy. Things change.

scrollaway 11y ago

And the moment Facebook decides to shut down? Or worse, the moment they start abusing their position as your identity provider?

SwellJoe 11y ago

"I think you're underestimating the importance of Facebook information towards making viable free content. The basic, accurate information you receive from the FB SDK really helps salespeople identify qualified leads for trial-to-paid conversions; the info also can be used to tell you what other websites people visit or software they use." I generally consider this kind of information warehousing and sharing unethical. While I understand the business case for it, and I understand that facebook has permission from their users because of the ToS agreement, I don't want to inflict it on my customers (who are often Open Source and Free software nerds who take their security somewhat seriously). I am a facebook user, but I don't like what facebook does to privacy. Google, same story. So, I view participating in those login systems as low-grade evil, as it contributes to the incredible stockpile of data facebook and Google have about all of us. I don't make a big deal about it, and I use sites that require it, but I don't have to like it. And, if there were a way for me to provide a similarly nice user experience to my customers without invading their privacy in any way, I would do so.

deno 11y ago

Facebook’s “Anonymous Login” doesn’t protect you in any way from Facebook, it’s for hiding information Facebook owns about your life from other websites. So it doesn’t help with this: >The basic, accurate information you receive from the FB SDK really helps salespeople identify qualified leads for trial-to-paid conversions; the info also can be used to tell you what other websites people visit or software they use. This really helps make sales and improve your software in a way that seems generally net positive for consumers and producers. but does nothing at all to protect your privacy. > And yet it's hardly adopted anywhere. That’s because it’s Public Relations. Just like their TOR gateway. Just like Zuckerberg’s LLC “charity.” Just like everything else they do[1]. “Steps in the right direction” is the signature move of modern corporate PR. [1] http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/258060-advocate-accuses-facebook-of-secretly-lobbying-for-cyber-bill http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/258060-advocate-accu...

stickfigure 11y ago

Facebook Anonymous Login is a menace to the open internet. As a website operator, these are no longer your users, they're Facebook's users, and Facebook can take them away from you at any time. As a user, these are no longer your website accounts, they're Facebook's website accounts, and Facebook can take them away from you at any time. Putting Facebook in complete control of identity is not healthy for anyone. At least when you get email addresses from Facebook, you can bootstrap an independent relationship with your customers if necessary. From the user's perspective: If Facebook blocks your account, the website operator can still validate your ownership with the email address.

something2324 11y ago
"and Facebook can take them away from you at any time" Have they actually done that to any website? That would undermine their whole system. They'd do that once and everyone would leave their service. That's like saying "Well Google could publish all your emails! So you definitely shouldn't trust your emails to Google"
- stickfigure 11y ago
  Have they actually done that to any website? Absolutely. Facebook freezes application ids all the time, mostly for what you or I would consider "good reasons" (spam, fraud, abuse, etc). Has it ever happened for less noble reasons, or grey zones? Do you want to bet that this will never be the case? How long is your time horizon? Facebook frequently freezes user accounts for all sorts of reasons. Maybe their name doesn't exactly match what's on their state issued ID. Maybe the art nude selfie they posted pissed off the censors. Maybe they expressed an unpopular political opinion. Maybe their name matches somebody on a sex offender list. Maybe they just got tripped up by an over-exuberant fraud bot. I remember when Microsoft was the good guy and IBM was the bad guy. Things change.