7 ms·

People are still using MongoDB for new projects after all the negative articles and comments about it?

by stesch 11y ago

vdaniuk 11y ago
Inertia aka traction is very powerful in tech. Consider that all these negative articles do not percolate to various semi-isolated communities and groups.
mayank 11y ago
Mongo 3.0 contains an engine that was acquired and is very decent, much like InnoDB in MySQL.
- prodigal_erik 11y ago
  Having read https://gist.github.com/mapopa/3619146 https://gist.github.com/mapopa/3619146, I'm not eager to trust the judgment of a team who was ever willing to handle users' data so recklessly. Same reason I avoid MySQL when I can.
  - hendzen 11y ago
    The authors of the new storage layer mentioned in the GP are the team that originally wrote BerkeleyDB, which has been used for misson critical workloads for decades. One of the authors actually invented Serializable Snapshot Isolation (SSI), the concurrency control mechanism used in Postgres. If you don't trust them to handle your data, I don't really know who you should trust.
    - prodigal_erik 11y ago
      For quite a long time, mongodb defaulted to buffering writes (presumably to win benchmarks) and dropping errors on the floor. Storage is not the only layer at which their dangerously poor judgment could screw me and my users.
danpalmer 11y ago
Unfortunately yes, but I'm not surprised. There seem to be a large number of people who came into the tech-startup industry through programming a bit of Javascript, maybe from a web design background, who never had a formal education in computer science, who suddenly found out that they could write 'full' web apps in Javascript, and they could query a database in Javascript, but never learnt enough to know why this is a bad idea. I'm not saying this is all bad, or that all Node devs are bad at all. Node is a good tool for a certain set of problems, and there are some excellent tools in the ecosystem and some great devs. But I think it is the easiest ecosystem to be a terrible developer in, and still get stuff working.
- Diamons 11y ago
  What does Mongo have to do with Javascript, and why is querying a DB with javascript a bad idea? What language you query a DB in should have no impact.
  - joepie91_ 11y ago
    MongoDB isn't really "queried with Javascript". Rather, it's "queried with JSON", which is a separate language entirely.
- nailer 11y ago
  MongoDB is bad because it has unsafe defaults (e.g., acknowledging writes that haven't happened), not because you can query it in JavaScript.
- drawkbox 11y ago
  Seems like you are saying Node is the new PHP or Ruby/Rails. It definitely has the most traction/gains so it has many experienced but also many newer devs.
- joepie91_ 11y ago
  While I agree with most of your assessment, this is one bit I very much disagree with: > But I think it is the easiest ecosystem to be a terrible developer in, and still get stuff working. That honour would go to PHP, as far as I'm concerned. JS has many more fail-hard scenarios, and if you don't adapt your attitude to learn about things before using them, you're very quickly going to run into brick walls due to the entire callback thing. Neither really has anything to do with MongoDB either - there's nothing inherently JS-y about MongoDB (JSON isn't JS), it just happens to have picked up a lot of traction around those parts.
rodrigogs 11y ago
Ok then... Install your heavy SQL database on your super fast machine and use it for everything till your memory screams. I'm not saying SQL databases are bad. It's just... They are not the only choice! You should be happy that now we have tons of alternatives to choose.
- smt88 11y ago
  1. SQLite isn't heavy. There are probably even lighter-weight relational solutions, but I haven't needed one, so I haven't looked. 2. Even among non-relational document storage solutions, Mongo has a poor reputation. As someone else says elsewhere in the comments, it's hard to trust a team that let so many ridiculously dangerous bugs (and a basically unreliable design) out into production for so long.
  - bpatrianakos 11y ago
    No SQLite isn't heavy but I hope you mean for use in development only. The issue isn't MongoDB is bad and relational DBs are awesome. The real issue is new developers being taught that Mongo and NoSQL in general are the databases you should be using with Node. The problem secondary to that is devs not knowing when each is appropriate.
    - cdcarter 11y ago
      SQLite is the most widely deployed database engine out there.
      - coderdude 11y ago
        Not in production it isn't.
        progx 11y ago
        My browser tell me something other.
jchrisa 11y ago
At Couchbase we recently introduced an open source SQL-style language with extensions for nested data. Live tutorial: http://query.pub.couchbase.com/tutorial/ http://query.pub.couchbase.com/tutorial/ We get a lot of folks who start with a Mongo evaluation and end up moving to something more serious.
- ameen 11y ago
  My only experience with DBs has been MS SQL, MySQL and PostgreSQL. I've always been intrigued with CouchDB. How friendly is CouchDB/PouchDB to someone from a SQL background?
  - jchrisa 11y ago
    CouchDB doesn't have a SQL like query language, and all acces is via http. Couchbase is higher performance with a binary protocol and autoscale features. So they are very different but they have in common that you store Json and then decide how to query it later.
romanovcode 11y ago
Isn't MongoDb after 3.0 release quite OK? Especially when used with new db engine? Also, mongo has very good drivers for every language, likely that is a good reason.

People are still using MongoDB for new projects after all the negative articles and comments about it?

by stesch 11y ago

People are still using MongoDB for new projects after all the negative articles and comments about it?

Inertia aka traction is very powerful in tech. Consider that all these negative articles do not percolate to various semi-isolated communities and groups.

mayank 11y ago

Mongo 3.0 contains an engine that was acquired and is very decent, much like InnoDB in MySQL.

prodigal_erik 11y ago
Having read https://gist.github.com/mapopa/3619146 https://gist.github.com/mapopa/3619146, I'm not eager to trust the judgment of a team who was ever willing to handle users' data so recklessly. Same reason I avoid MySQL when I can.
- hendzen 11y ago
  The authors of the new storage layer mentioned in the GP are the team that originally wrote BerkeleyDB, which has been used for misson critical workloads for decades. One of the authors actually invented Serializable Snapshot Isolation (SSI), the concurrency control mechanism used in Postgres. If you don't trust them to handle your data, I don't really know who you should trust.
  - prodigal_erik 11y ago
    For quite a long time, mongodb defaulted to buffering writes (presumably to win benchmarks) and dropping errors on the floor. Storage is not the only layer at which their dangerously poor judgment could screw me and my users.

danpalmer 11y ago

Unfortunately yes, but I'm not surprised. There seem to be a large number of people who came into the tech-startup industry through programming a bit of Javascript, maybe from a web design background, who never had a formal education in computer science, who suddenly found out that they could write 'full' web apps in Javascript, and they could query a database in Javascript, but never learnt enough to know why this is a bad idea. I'm not saying this is all bad, or that all Node devs are bad at all. Node is a good tool for a certain set of problems, and there are some excellent tools in the ecosystem and some great devs. But I think it is the easiest ecosystem to be a terrible developer in, and still get stuff working.

Diamons 11y ago
What does Mongo have to do with Javascript, and why is querying a DB with javascript a bad idea? What language you query a DB in should have no impact.
- joepie91_ 11y ago
  MongoDB isn't really "queried with Javascript". Rather, it's "queried with JSON", which is a separate language entirely.
nailer 11y ago
MongoDB is bad because it has unsafe defaults (e.g., acknowledging writes that haven't happened), not because you can query it in JavaScript.
drawkbox 11y ago
Seems like you are saying Node is the new PHP or Ruby/Rails. It definitely has the most traction/gains so it has many experienced but also many newer devs.
joepie91_ 11y ago
While I agree with most of your assessment, this is one bit I very much disagree with: > But I think it is the easiest ecosystem to be a terrible developer in, and still get stuff working. That honour would go to PHP, as far as I'm concerned. JS has many more fail-hard scenarios, and if you don't adapt your attitude to learn about things before using them, you're very quickly going to run into brick walls due to the entire callback thing. Neither really has anything to do with MongoDB either - there's nothing inherently JS-y about MongoDB (JSON isn't JS), it just happens to have picked up a lot of traction around those parts.

rodrigogs 11y ago

Ok then... Install your heavy SQL database on your super fast machine and use it for everything till your memory screams. I'm not saying SQL databases are bad. It's just... They are not the only choice! You should be happy that now we have tons of alternatives to choose.

smt88 11y ago
1. SQLite isn't heavy. There are probably even lighter-weight relational solutions, but I haven't needed one, so I haven't looked. 2. Even among non-relational document storage solutions, Mongo has a poor reputation. As someone else says elsewhere in the comments, it's hard to trust a team that let so many ridiculously dangerous bugs (and a basically unreliable design) out into production for so long.
- bpatrianakos 11y ago
  No SQLite isn't heavy but I hope you mean for use in development only. The issue isn't MongoDB is bad and relational DBs are awesome. The real issue is new developers being taught that Mongo and NoSQL in general are the databases you should be using with Node. The problem secondary to that is devs not knowing when each is appropriate.
  - cdcarter 11y ago
    SQLite is the most widely deployed database engine out there.
    - coderdude 11y ago
      Not in production it isn't.
      - progx 11y ago
        My browser tell me something other.

jchrisa 11y ago

At Couchbase we recently introduced an open source SQL-style language with extensions for nested data. Live tutorial: http://query.pub.couchbase.com/tutorial/ http://query.pub.couchbase.com/tutorial/ We get a lot of folks who start with a Mongo evaluation and end up moving to something more serious.

ameen 11y ago
My only experience with DBs has been MS SQL, MySQL and PostgreSQL. I've always been intrigued with CouchDB. How friendly is CouchDB/PouchDB to someone from a SQL background?
- jchrisa 11y ago
  CouchDB doesn't have a SQL like query language, and all acces is via http. Couchbase is higher performance with a binary protocol and autoscale features. So they are very different but they have in common that you store Json and then decide how to query it later.

romanovcode 11y ago

Isn't MongoDb after 3.0 release quite OK? Especially when used with new db engine? Also, mongo has very good drivers for every language, likely that is a good reason.