4 ms·

Salaries in the US are much closer to those of in the EU once you factor in the cost of financing your own safety net. That's the counterpart of lower taxes. N

by athenot 11y ago

Salaries in the US are much closer to those of in the EU once you factor in the cost of financing your own safety net. That's the counterpart of lower taxes. Now if you're in the US and pretend to have an EU salary by stashing away a big chunk of it, then yes that is most desirable.

crucifiction 11y ago
Not in tech. Per other HN recent articles its relatively straightforward to make in the $150-250k range as a software engineer at BigTech. Even if you decide to stash $30k/year after tax for your own 'safety net' (equivalent to whatever net you receive in an EU country), you are still coming out way ahead of a EU software engineer that is probably making $70-90k USD equivalent before taxes take half.
- nommm-nommm 11y ago
  Does anyone make that much money outside of expensive cities like San Francisco and New York though? I know that I am underpaid but I don't think I am that underpaid.
  - crucifiction 11y ago
    That is where the bulk of tech jobs are, around cities where you can make that much. For example, you can make that in Seattle or basically anywhere in the bay area (no, you don't need to live in SF unless you want to). The cost of living is higher, but the cost of living in large EU cities where tech jobs are going to be is similarly higher. I think people also make bad comparisons when doing cost of living exercises. While it is true that potentially much more $$ will be going to rent/mortgage in a high cost of living area, many other things are going to be the same as anywhere else. A $100k Tesla is $100k in SF just like its $100k in North Dakota. After tax + basic needs costs and someone in a large tech city is going to have significantly more disposable income still than someone making much lower salary with much lower cost of living.
refurb 11y ago
I'm curious about what you mean by "financing your own safety net"? If you take an average middle class person in the US, your company will provide you with health insurance, so that's covered. If you come down with a horrible illness and can't work, your employer provides LT disability insurance. If you run out of that, you have Social Security disability insurance. And even if that runs out, you have Medicaid disability insurance. I won't argue that the EU provides a more comprehensive safety net (probably easier access as well), but US isn't that far behind.
- Futurebot 11y ago
  If you live in one of the major metros where the jobs are, your rent may be very high (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/11/why-its-so-hard-for-millennials-to-figure-out-where-to-live/382929/?utm_source=SFFB&single_page=true http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/11/why-its-...), which means that your runway that sounds like a lot isn't, /especially/ if you have to deal with an extended job search. This is obviously less of an issue for many decent or better developers in the current market, but this can't necessarily be said of adjacent positions. Unemployment benefits in the US are both incredibly stingy and time-limited. Another thing is that there is a strata of people who fall into the donut hole: they make too much to get ACA subsidies, and too little to get a reasonable plan (http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/the-coverage-gap-uninsured-poor-adults-in-states-that-do-not-expand-medicaid-an-update/. http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/the-coverage-gap-un...) If you get stuck with a major condition in that situation, you're going to be in a lot of trouble, not to mention that even the insured may not have everything covered. Medical bankruptcies are the most common in the US still: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148 http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148 "Even outside of bankruptcy, about 56 million adults—more than 20 percent of the population between the ages of 19 and 64—will still struggle with health-care-related bills this year, according to NerdWallet Health. And if you think only Americans without health insurance face financial troubles, think again. NerdWallet estimates nearly 10 million adults with year-round health-insurance coverage will still accumulate medical bills that they can't pay off this year." So yes, in the US, you absolutely need your own safety net.
  - 11y ago

by athenot 11y ago

crucifiction 11y ago

Not in tech. Per other HN recent articles its relatively straightforward to make in the $150-250k range as a software engineer at BigTech. Even if you decide to stash $30k/year after tax for your own 'safety net' (equivalent to whatever net you receive in an EU country), you are still coming out way ahead of a EU software engineer that is probably making $70-90k USD equivalent before taxes take half.

nommm-nommm 11y ago
Does anyone make that much money outside of expensive cities like San Francisco and New York though? I know that I am underpaid but I don't think I am that underpaid.
- crucifiction 11y ago
  That is where the bulk of tech jobs are, around cities where you can make that much. For example, you can make that in Seattle or basically anywhere in the bay area (no, you don't need to live in SF unless you want to). The cost of living is higher, but the cost of living in large EU cities where tech jobs are going to be is similarly higher. I think people also make bad comparisons when doing cost of living exercises. While it is true that potentially much more $$ will be going to rent/mortgage in a high cost of living area, many other things are going to be the same as anywhere else. A $100k Tesla is $100k in SF just like its $100k in North Dakota. After tax + basic needs costs and someone in a large tech city is going to have significantly more disposable income still than someone making much lower salary with much lower cost of living.

refurb 11y ago

I'm curious about what you mean by "financing your own safety net"? If you take an average middle class person in the US, your company will provide you with health insurance, so that's covered. If you come down with a horrible illness and can't work, your employer provides LT disability insurance. If you run out of that, you have Social Security disability insurance. And even if that runs out, you have Medicaid disability insurance. I won't argue that the EU provides a more comprehensive safety net (probably easier access as well), but US isn't that far behind.

Futurebot 11y ago
If you live in one of the major metros where the jobs are, your rent may be very high (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/11/why-its-so-hard-for-millennials-to-figure-out-where-to-live/382929/?utm_source=SFFB&single_page=true http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/11/why-its-...), which means that your runway that sounds like a lot isn't, /especially/ if you have to deal with an extended job search. This is obviously less of an issue for many decent or better developers in the current market, but this can't necessarily be said of adjacent positions. Unemployment benefits in the US are both incredibly stingy and time-limited. Another thing is that there is a strata of people who fall into the donut hole: they make too much to get ACA subsidies, and too little to get a reasonable plan (http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/the-coverage-gap-uninsured-poor-adults-in-states-that-do-not-expand-medicaid-an-update/. http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/the-coverage-gap-un...) If you get stuck with a major condition in that situation, you're going to be in a lot of trouble, not to mention that even the insured may not have everything covered. Medical bankruptcies are the most common in the US still: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148 http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148 "Even outside of bankruptcy, about 56 million adults—more than 20 percent of the population between the ages of 19 and 64—will still struggle with health-care-related bills this year, according to NerdWallet Health. And if you think only Americans without health insurance face financial troubles, think again. NerdWallet estimates nearly 10 million adults with year-round health-insurance coverage will still accumulate medical bills that they can't pay off this year." So yes, in the US, you absolutely need your own safety net.
- 11y ago