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No it doesn't. It means you have a lot of free time and can be used as cannon fodder for the startup. You will work 80-100 hour weeks producing exceptional work

by ohyes 11y ago

No it doesn't. It means you have a lot of free time and can be used as cannon fodder for the startup. You will work 80-100 hour weeks producing exceptional work for compensation that is below the area average. Let's get real, employers /want/ young naive fresh out of college kids who've never been burned and don't know any better than to give their early to mid twenties to a VC/startup for peanuts. Messing around with a rest API is just a sign that you are potential prey, a fresh kill for the hamburger machine.

tamana 11y ago
You said it yourself, these candidates produce exceptional work. The fact that they may be underpaid is a problem with their (group) ability to negotiate pay, not a failure in hiring manager's talent recognition.
autotune 11y ago
> You will work 80-100 hour weeks producing exceptional work for compensation that is below the area average. This is what glassdoor reviews are for, and is entirely dependent on the company. Besides that it's a two way street, you bolster up the resume and if it turns out it's not what you expected than you now have the skills to find an environment that is what you're looking for. Alternatively you could of course spend your early-mid 20s being homeless and join the gutter punks in trying to sell weed to those VCs around The Haight instead, but that's not as fulfilling or lucrative IMHO.
AYBABTME 11y ago
Or it means that among the hobbies you have that consume your free time, there is 'tech' as a line item. There's nothing wrong about doing research in tech in one's free time if that what they enjoy doing. It's really annoying to read replies like yours that systematically suggest all people who spend time researching and side-projecting stuff about tech are doing so because they have lot of free time or are cannon fodder. If you prefer to spend your free time gardening or brewing beer, that's fine. It's equally fine if I enjoy spending my own time learning about more tech stuff.
- ohyes 11y ago
  I didn't mean to suggest that people who research and side-project tech stuff are universally cannon fodder or have otherwise negative loser-y properties. I certainly don't believe that as I do it myself... What I meant to suggest is that there is a certain cynical undertone in an organization where 'work is also my hobby' is a disproportionately desirable line item in an interview. I was attempting to project that attitude rhetorically. Given your offense, I think the point was made, but maybe too subtly... It is an offensive attitude. To me it implies something negative about how I (and my time) will be valued. This isn't to say anything about the (what I think is) natural 'starting a new job' period, where one puts in extra hours to get up to speed on the technologies being used and the existing code-base. That's part of hitting the ground running and being a good and productive hire.
- marshray 11y ago
  These are not necessarily contradictory positions. Even if you work only 40 hours a week directly developing software for the startup, the independent time you spend self-educating and researching can often enable faster development.

by ohyes 11y ago

tamana 11y ago

You said it yourself, these candidates produce exceptional work. The fact that they may be underpaid is a problem with their (group) ability to negotiate pay, not a failure in hiring manager's talent recognition.

autotune 11y ago

> You will work 80-100 hour weeks producing exceptional work for compensation that is below the area average. This is what glassdoor reviews are for, and is entirely dependent on the company. Besides that it's a two way street, you bolster up the resume and if it turns out it's not what you expected than you now have the skills to find an environment that is what you're looking for. Alternatively you could of course spend your early-mid 20s being homeless and join the gutter punks in trying to sell weed to those VCs around The Haight instead, but that's not as fulfilling or lucrative IMHO.

AYBABTME 11y ago

Or it means that among the hobbies you have that consume your free time, there is 'tech' as a line item. There's nothing wrong about doing research in tech in one's free time if that what they enjoy doing. It's really annoying to read replies like yours that systematically suggest all people who spend time researching and side-projecting stuff about tech are doing so because they have lot of free time or are cannon fodder. If you prefer to spend your free time gardening or brewing beer, that's fine. It's equally fine if I enjoy spending my own time learning about more tech stuff.

ohyes 11y ago
I didn't mean to suggest that people who research and side-project tech stuff are universally cannon fodder or have otherwise negative loser-y properties. I certainly don't believe that as I do it myself... What I meant to suggest is that there is a certain cynical undertone in an organization where 'work is also my hobby' is a disproportionately desirable line item in an interview. I was attempting to project that attitude rhetorically. Given your offense, I think the point was made, but maybe too subtly... It is an offensive attitude. To me it implies something negative about how I (and my time) will be valued. This isn't to say anything about the (what I think is) natural 'starting a new job' period, where one puts in extra hours to get up to speed on the technologies being used and the existing code-base. That's part of hitting the ground running and being a good and productive hire.
marshray 11y ago
These are not necessarily contradictory positions. Even if you work only 40 hours a week directly developing software for the startup, the independent time you spend self-educating and researching can often enable faster development.