7 ms·

It frightens me how literal this looks to be intended: that freedom is (almost exclusively) a function of infrastructure, rather than "the human layer". It's a

by pudo 11y ago

It frightens me how literal this looks to be intended: that freedom is (almost exclusively) a function of infrastructure, rather than "the human layer". It's a dead-serious attempt to "hot-wire" politics by means of better crypto and smarter tech, to avoid having to engage in the constructive design and defense of laws which guarantee freedom.

sowbug 11y ago
Yes, the name of the project is aspirational, but there's a bit of fallacy of relative privation in this argument, don't you think? Why can't technical specialists use their skills toward a common goal of greater freedom? Should they spend that time and effort faxing their congresspersons instead?
- jordigh 11y ago
  Eben Moglen is both technically and legally savvy (he's the one who wrote the GPL). He works on both fronts, and the FreedomBox project which he inspired is but part of his overall work.
  - jrnvs 11y ago
    Richard Stallman wrote the GNU GPL. Eben Moglen assisted in writing version 3.
    - jordigh 11y ago
      Oh, I thought rms only wrote GPLv1 and got a lot of assistance from Moglen for GPLv2, but I suppose you're right, my bad, it was only until GPLv3 that Moglen had a big impact.
Flip-per 11y ago
The FreedomBox Foundation is led by Eben Moglen, founder of the Software Freedom Law Center (http://softwarefreedom.org/ http://softwarefreedom.org/), which takes care of the human and law layer.
norea-armozel 11y ago
I think the Freedombox concept is the technical part of the two prong solution to the problem. EFF handles free speech and privacy. Freedombox deals with the just in case situation if/when EFF fails.
nyan4 11y ago
> defense of laws which guarantee freedom Some powerful organizations are doing a lot of illegal surveillance for decades despite of those laws. Shall we stop using HTTPS in the meantime?
vox_mollis 11y ago
This is because 95% of the time throughout human history, true political freedom from authority is only ever won via extreme violence. As nerds, we're neither inclined nor skilled in the ways of killing, and we enjoy our modern comforts, so we opt for technical workarounds instead.
- adrtessier 11y ago
  > political freedom from authority is only ever won via extreme violence. Eh, that's the most extreme end. Political freedom from authority is won by having more power, period. That power can come in many forms, but at its most primal can come from having the capability of lethal force. The power of a representative government is supposed to be in being able to vote out those that are destroying you, not in you having to take up arms to solve the issue.
- dredmorbius 11y ago
  For most of human history, political freedom was won by being too far away / hard to reach. A few miles of moderately rough terrain would do in many instances, or a modest slope.
- djsumdog 11y ago
  Money and debt come via violence. ; not really freedom...except in the sense that it isn't slavery (which is directly related to debt and money). I highly suggest people read Debt: The First 5000 Years. It's pretty life changing.
lwyr 11y ago
Our dependence on technology enables new vectors of control and I am not as optimistic about the ability of laws to guarantee these will not be abused. Trust in government as an agent of freedom is a very recent (not to mention regional) development. I say we err on the side of freedom and don't tempt government too much with opportunities for technology-assisted totalitarianism.
brlewis 11y ago
I don't see where they claim that freedom is comprised almost exclusively of their project.

by pudo 11y ago

sowbug 11y ago

Yes, the name of the project is aspirational, but there's a bit of fallacy of relative privation in this argument, don't you think? Why can't technical specialists use their skills toward a common goal of greater freedom? Should they spend that time and effort faxing their congresspersons instead?

jordigh 11y ago
Eben Moglen is both technically and legally savvy (he's the one who wrote the GPL). He works on both fronts, and the FreedomBox project which he inspired is but part of his overall work.
- jrnvs 11y ago
  Richard Stallman wrote the GNU GPL. Eben Moglen assisted in writing version 3.
  - jordigh 11y ago
    Oh, I thought rms only wrote GPLv1 and got a lot of assistance from Moglen for GPLv2, but I suppose you're right, my bad, it was only until GPLv3 that Moglen had a big impact.

Flip-per 11y ago

The FreedomBox Foundation is led by Eben Moglen, founder of the Software Freedom Law Center (http://softwarefreedom.org/ http://softwarefreedom.org/), which takes care of the human and law layer.

norea-armozel 11y ago

I think the Freedombox concept is the technical part of the two prong solution to the problem. EFF handles free speech and privacy. Freedombox deals with the just in case situation if/when EFF fails.

nyan4 11y ago

> defense of laws which guarantee freedom Some powerful organizations are doing a lot of illegal surveillance for decades despite of those laws. Shall we stop using HTTPS in the meantime?

vox_mollis 11y ago

This is because 95% of the time throughout human history, true political freedom from authority is only ever won via extreme violence. As nerds, we're neither inclined nor skilled in the ways of killing, and we enjoy our modern comforts, so we opt for technical workarounds instead.

adrtessier 11y ago
> political freedom from authority is only ever won via extreme violence. Eh, that's the most extreme end. Political freedom from authority is won by having more power, period. That power can come in many forms, but at its most primal can come from having the capability of lethal force. The power of a representative government is supposed to be in being able to vote out those that are destroying you, not in you having to take up arms to solve the issue.
dredmorbius 11y ago
For most of human history, political freedom was won by being too far away / hard to reach. A few miles of moderately rough terrain would do in many instances, or a modest slope.
djsumdog 11y ago
Money and debt come via violence. ; not really freedom...except in the sense that it isn't slavery (which is directly related to debt and money). I highly suggest people read Debt: The First 5000 Years. It's pretty life changing.

lwyr 11y ago

Our dependence on technology enables new vectors of control and I am not as optimistic about the ability of laws to guarantee these will not be abused. Trust in government as an agent of freedom is a very recent (not to mention regional) development. I say we err on the side of freedom and don't tempt government too much with opportunities for technology-assisted totalitarianism.

brlewis 11y ago

I don't see where they claim that freedom is comprised almost exclusively of their project.