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Hierarchy is defined as priority of access to resources and probability of winning competitive encounters ...and cooperation is some game that sounds like the

Hierarchy is defined as priority of access to resources and probability of winning competitive encounters ...and cooperation is some game that sounds like the lower-ranked participant will have a negative expected return (double a common pot -- as long as it's above threshold -- and let the higher-ranked person take more than half). . I'm thinking this won't apply very well to situations where everyone has a positive expected return. Like most real-world organizations, companies, etc.

RobertoG 11y ago
"I'm thinking this won't apply very well to situations where everyone has a positive expected return. Like most real-world organizations, companies, etc." Don't understand your point. In the experiment, the low ranked persons get a positive return. It's just that, the return, it's determined, not by the investment in the cooperation phase, but by the position in the hierarchy. How that doesn't apply?
- tbrownaw 11y ago
  Because they get less than half of the doubled pot? ...re-reading, it sounds like the pot is actually set to double the threshold rather than doubling whatever's in it. Which means the way I was trying to calculate things out won't work, but also explains why the splitting phase behaved like it did.
panglott 11y ago
It does sound like that's about zero-sum games, but there can also be competition for the rewards of positive-sum games. If we collaborate to produce 100 pounds of bananas and you take 70 pounds and I take 30, that's evidence of a hierarchy even if I also come out ahead.
nabla9 11y ago
There are number of primate and human studies that suggest that we value perceived justice and fairness and just offering positive expected return is not enough. A Theory of Fairness, Competition, and Cooperation http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/content/114/3/817.short http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/content/114/3/817.short https://epub.ub.uni-muenchen.de/726/1/Fehr-Schmidt_Handbook_2005-Munichecon.pdf https://epub.ub.uni-muenchen.de/726/1/Fehr-Schmidt_Handbook_... Justice- and fairness-related behaviors in nonhuman primates http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3690609/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3690609/ Chimpanzees play the ultimatum game http://www.pnas.org/content/110/6/2070 http://www.pnas.org/content/110/6/2070

RobertoG 11y ago

"I'm thinking this won't apply very well to situations where everyone has a positive expected return. Like most real-world organizations, companies, etc." Don't understand your point. In the experiment, the low ranked persons get a positive return. It's just that, the return, it's determined, not by the investment in the cooperation phase, but by the position in the hierarchy. How that doesn't apply?

tbrownaw 11y ago
Because they get less than half of the doubled pot? ...re-reading, it sounds like the pot is actually set to double the threshold rather than doubling whatever's in it. Which means the way I was trying to calculate things out won't work, but also explains why the splitting phase behaved like it did.

panglott 11y ago

It does sound like that's about zero-sum games, but there can also be competition for the rewards of positive-sum games. If we collaborate to produce 100 pounds of bananas and you take 70 pounds and I take 30, that's evidence of a hierarchy even if I also come out ahead.

nabla9 11y ago

There are number of primate and human studies that suggest that we value perceived justice and fairness and just offering positive expected return is not enough. A Theory of Fairness, Competition, and Cooperation http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/content/114/3/817.short http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/content/114/3/817.short https://epub.ub.uni-muenchen.de/726/1/Fehr-Schmidt_Handbook_2005-Munichecon.pdf https://epub.ub.uni-muenchen.de/726/1/Fehr-Schmidt_Handbook_... Justice- and fairness-related behaviors in nonhuman primates http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3690609/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3690609/ Chimpanzees play the ultimatum game http://www.pnas.org/content/110/6/2070 http://www.pnas.org/content/110/6/2070