4 ms·

Except we have no idea how to "reform" people. Even various pre-K programs return dismal results when tried at any significant scale. And these are impressionab

by blfr 11y ago

Except we have no idea how to "reform" people. Even various pre-K programs return dismal results when tried at any significant scale. And these are impressionable kids, not hardened criminals. Perhaps not coincidentally, we also have a rather poor track record of helping mental patients. You could attribute some of it to mistreatment and maltreatment but largely we just don't know what to do.

s_q_b 11y ago
Absolutely. But the goal needs to be reform. We have some idea of how to approach it (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, mandatory real time drug and alcohol monitoring, psychotropics such as antipsychotics, employable skillsets, stable housing, stable income, anger management, etc.) We don't entirely know what to do yet, but I bet we could get a lot better at reform if that's where we focused our efforts, rather than attributing all crime to moral failing.
- aaronem 11y ago
  That'd be a great idea if psychiatry had any better idea of what moves people to commit crimes, and how to stop them doing it again, than anyone else does. And even then, it'd be a terrible idea. You're proposing psychiatry become, not just an arm of the state, but an arm of the criminal justice system, with all the baggage that implies. What in the history of the field gives you to imagine it's mature enough, with responsible enough practitioners, to be given that much potential for abuse both well-meaning and otherwise?
lmm 11y ago
Community service results in massively lower recidivism rates than custodial sentences (even when the original crime was the same). We're not great at reforming people (though there are a few cheap targeted interventions we should be doing at every opportunity - namely ensuring mothers are well fed during the last few months of pregnancy, and avoiding lead exposure), but replacing most prison sentences with community service would most likely massively cut crime.
FussyZeus 11y ago
Plus even after they've served their time they still have an incredibly hard time finding work, housing, and anything else that would fall under the category of "required for life." And then we wonder why recidivism is so fucking high.

by blfr 11y ago

s_q_b 11y ago

Absolutely. But the goal needs to be reform. We have some idea of how to approach it (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, mandatory real time drug and alcohol monitoring, psychotropics such as antipsychotics, employable skillsets, stable housing, stable income, anger management, etc.) We don't entirely know what to do yet, but I bet we could get a lot better at reform if that's where we focused our efforts, rather than attributing all crime to moral failing.

aaronem 11y ago
That'd be a great idea if psychiatry had any better idea of what moves people to commit crimes, and how to stop them doing it again, than anyone else does. And even then, it'd be a terrible idea. You're proposing psychiatry become, not just an arm of the state, but an arm of the criminal justice system, with all the baggage that implies. What in the history of the field gives you to imagine it's mature enough, with responsible enough practitioners, to be given that much potential for abuse both well-meaning and otherwise?

lmm 11y ago

Community service results in massively lower recidivism rates than custodial sentences (even when the original crime was the same). We're not great at reforming people (though there are a few cheap targeted interventions we should be doing at every opportunity - namely ensuring mothers are well fed during the last few months of pregnancy, and avoiding lead exposure), but replacing most prison sentences with community service would most likely massively cut crime.

FussyZeus 11y ago

Plus even after they've served their time they still have an incredibly hard time finding work, housing, and anything else that would fall under the category of "required for life." And then we wonder why recidivism is so fucking high.