11 ms·

Common: Co-Living Startup from a General Assembly Founder

50 points by edward 11y ago

caser 11y ago
I'm really excited to see more companies like this. While the economics are interesting, I think the real value that co-living brings is community. People used to get their feelings of belonging from their church and religion. As religion takes a backseat, people are finding that sense of community in new areas (like Crossfit). I personally felt really lost toward the end of university. Due to injury, I was unable to play sports, which is where I'd found my "tribe" growing up. I also was doing a lot of soul-searching after shutting down my last company, and so was feeling disconnected from a lot of the people in the startup world. Anyways, through a series of random events, I ended up starting a coliving experiment for developers & entrepreneurs in Costa Rica. I thought the value would be having interesting people around while abroad, but the best part was getting thrown into a collegial atmosphere, where people would just hang out and shoot the breeze about anything they found interesting. It was a really profound experience for me, and I've since spent 11 out of the last 14 months in various co-living arrangements around the world through Hacker Paradise. There are definitely drawbacks to intense levels of community. You have a bit less privacy, and interpersonal friction will arise. Still, I think it can be a really remarkable experience for people in their "Odyssey years," while they're still trying to figure out what they want to make their life's work. I know I've made closer friends through co-living than I would have otherwise.
- archagon 11y ago
  I had the exactly the same experience with student co-ops in college, as did many of my peers. Honestly, I think it's just a better way of living in general, Odyssey Years or not. I'd love to still live in a self-sufficient, close-knit community when I'm 70 years old. (Maybe structured as a bit more of an eco-village than a giant house, maybe not.)
  - metasean 11y ago
    I'd like to have semi-eco-villages that could also support a more mobile community. In particular, I'd like to be able to travel and live in an RV, moving between "villages" as desired.
amyjess 11y ago
Reading the first paragraph makes me glad I don't live in New York. $1800+ to rent a bedroom in a shared space? Really? Living in Texas, I have an entire 1500 sq. ft. townhouse all to myself for $1220.
- shampine 11y ago
  Everyone has different priorities. Big cities come with benefits that you have to pay for to enjoy. Different strokes for different folks, you can't really compare the two at just a price point and size. There is so much more.
- robrenaud 11y ago
  As far as I can tell, this isn't even in a nice part of New York.
  - garethsprice 11y ago
    It's a working class Caribbean neighborhood right now but was originally built as housing for middle-class Victorian clerics, so there's a lot of beautiful but run down buildings & great transport links (ie. ripe for gentrification). In the 90s it was extremely rough (race riots), now it's fairly safe and the artisanal coffee shops and trendy restaurants are creeping southwards as the city's population continues to grow & get priced out of other areas. Guessing a flop house packed with affluent young tech bros is going to throw some gasoline on the Crown Heights hyper-gentrification fire, for better or worse.
- oops 11y ago
  Their prices are pretty high compared to typical rentals in the same neighborhood. You could get a 1 or maybe 2 bedroom apartment for the same money.
nxm 11y ago
So the only question is...can I Airbnb my bedroom?
- thesyndicate 11y ago
  No - subletting / listing a bedroom on Airbnb at Common isn't allowed. It's a pretty tight community of 19 people so your roommates would definitely notice.
wehadfun 11y ago
I would have liked something similar years ago. Here are a few features I would like Free dinner, breakfast, and snacks A small kitchenet Free or cheap onsite storage Include all util also Wifi and premium cable pay rent online Security cameras way to let guest into building without going out to meet them Fully furnished option In unit laundry or laundry service Amazon locker
archagon 11y ago
I stand firmly by the idea that a co-living arrangement should never be structured as a traditional corporation. Make it a co-op, and make each member (roughly) an equal shareholder. Have the incentives align. Are there any such public co-living startups?
- tdaltonc 11y ago
  Do monastic orders qualify for your definition of co-op?
- thescriptkiddie 11y ago
  You don't even have to go full co-op, you can make it a simple nonprofit. This arrangement is not uncommon in college towns.
tzier 11y ago
This article is from October 19th, so 2 months old. They also announced their funding back in July. Have there been any updates since then? What is fill rate? What is feedback from inhabitants like? Updates on next residence timing?
- thesyndicate 11y ago
  Founder here! We were totally full when we opened in October. Our next building - also in Brooklyn - opens on January 10th.
  - gatsby 11y ago
    Congrats on the initial traction! I feel like "co-living" is definitely a huge opportunity, and someone will get it right. Curious what you're going to do differently than Campus and several other SF-based companies that had a similar model but couldn't scale beyond 15-20 locations: http://www.businessinsider.com/campus-co-living-san-francisco-new-york-closes-2015-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/campus-co-living-san-francisc...
    - thesyndicate 11y ago
      Lots of things - mostly that we have the entire buildings rather than single units, which is particularly important in NYC where we're operating right now. We also partner with real estate funds and investors to purchase vacant buildings rather than leasing units off the market.
  - tdaltonc 11y ago
    How do you keep a small charismatic group from totally dominating the common spaces. In other words, how do you keep them "common," so that even the introverts can feel comfortable using them?
    - dopamean 11y ago
      I hate to be exclusionary but wouldn't you think that if you were so introverted that you had a hard time sharing a space with other people then maybe you shouldn't live in a shared situation like this?
beatpanda 11y ago
Can somebody please start a co-living startup that actually increases the quality of housing for the money instead of decreasing it? "I have a great business idea -- you can rent a bedroom on Craigslist for about $1,200 a month, so let's add bluetooth and charge $2,000 a month!" These people are parasites and they need to be stopped.
- jarcane 11y ago
  Precisely. Two grand a month to live in what is essentially a boarding house, like the places I used to live when I was broke and worked as a cook, only with more hipster-friendly decor. That's absurd.
- archagon 11y ago
  Traditional co-op housing arrangements were developed to save money by pooling resources. Now, it looks like the SV twist on the idea is heading in the opposite direction. I guess that's the only way you can get venture funding for a project like this. The corollary is that if a great, cost-saving, truly cooperative tech house actually gets founded, you won't hear about it on HN.
lmcnish14 11y ago
Wow have times changed. I lived in a (much less nice) communal building in Bushwick, Brooklyn a few years ago and it was just $500 a month for a room. As a newbie to NYC at the time, it was really great to jump into a fully formed community but after a while, it was just too much to be surrounded by people all the time. You could tell others were having the same issues and people started to pick fights over silly things and it just became a very stressful experience. This place is significantly nicer than where I stayed but I wonder how the issues that come with putting a large group of diverse people together in one space will be handled.
- milkshakes 11y ago
  the market hotel by any chance? i have fond memories of that spot.
  - lmcnish14 11y ago
    It was called Surreal Estate. I believe it's still there but at this point, I assume anyone still living there is just a squatter.
egusa 11y ago
brad hargreaves (the founder of common, also co-founded General Assembly), is an amazing guy; super humble, really willing to help others. it's great to see him having so much success.
tdaltonc 11y ago
$1800/bedroom/month sounds like a lot for someone trying to bootstrap a start-up. My co-founders and I pay $730/bedroom/month in Los Angeles, and it's more than enough space. It would be nice to share a bigger space with other startups, but not $1800 great.
- dominotw 11y ago
  Yea really expensive for most people. Also, the article doesn't seem to mention who is responsible for 'communal areas'
  - chrismartin 11y ago
    Common areas are cleaned by people who can't afford to live there.
rdl 11y ago
I'd love to do this for my next startup (in Seattle and/or Berlin; maybe an Asia location too). It's the most efficient way to work. I've done it with Sealand/HavenCo and in war zones, but not recently elsewhere. It's unsustainable when startup isn't the primary (or, basically only) thing in your life, but there are a few potential solutions: 0) Be flexible. The biggest bar to this is probably people with families/kids (which I personally hope to never have, but I respect that some people, including great employees/founders/etc., do and deeply value having family interactions) -- do whatever is possible to address this. It's probably not a one size fits all solution. "Live on site 2-3 days/week, wfh otherwise" might actually be preferable to a lot of people with families than spending 1-2h/day commuting and 8-12h/day working 5 days/week. 1) Duration limited (say, a startup from 0 to 10-15 employees and $20mm/yr revenue -- could be 1-3y). Even if the duration is long (3y), having a specific time where it will change as the default helps. 2) People who are inherently suited to this (which probably works well for, say, early career security people; not as well for civil engineers.) 3) Intermittent -- work/live like this for months at a time, then go back "home". 4) High budget: live/work like this AND have enough money to have a "regular" house/apartment elsewhere, or at least go on great vacations. 5) Deep mission at the startup: "save the world from spy agencies", yes. "Build a more efficient billing system for other startups", probably not. 6) Strongly prioritize "no assholes rule" in hiring. (The worst thing about having one coddled asshole is then everyone else feels the need to equivalently act like an asshole to be taken seriously; it's self perpetuating) 7) Have an obvious physical reason for being in the same place -- easier to co-live in a remote location building a dam, than it is to co-live in an office park in Kentucky to build billing software.
- napoleond 11y ago
  > which probably works well for, say, early career security people; not as well for civil engineers Just curious: why do you think this would be less likely to work well for civil engineers?
  - rdl 11y ago
    It may be selection bias of the ones I've met, but they seem older/families/more traditional, vs. early-career security people. That might be because a lot of the civil engineers I've met have been government employees.
cobookman 11y ago
The Negev is another coop that started in the bay area, but has recently expanded: http://thenegev.com/ http://thenegev.com/ Was a great landing pad, and would highly recommend to those moving to SF. Its $1250/month for a shared room month-to-month.
- milkshakes 11y ago
  i have only heard shady things about this place both anecdotally and in the media[1][2][3]. this does not seem to be the atmosphere that common is aiming for. is there another side to the negev story that i'm missing? [1]:http://sfist.com/2014/11/21/tech_co-op_the_negev_faces_further.php http://sfist.com/2014/11/21/tech_co-op_the_negev_faces_furth... [2]:http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/legal-problems-continue-for-two-negev-tech-communes-in-sf/Content?oid=2913249 http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/legal-problems-c... [3]:http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/sro-tenants-tales-tell-scary-story/Content?oid=2912562 http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/sro-tenants-tale...
chrismartin 11y ago
As someone who always prefers shared housing, this does not sit well. It's not a cooperative, it's a dorm/hotel-like arrangement where laundry and cleaning tasks are outsourced to people who can't afford to live there. You're paying someone else to be your mom. That model works for short-term arrangements where inhabitants are very busy (students and travelers), but this sounds like it will become a gentrified echo chamber of Rob Rhinehart disciples. I agree with other commenters that cooperative ownership models, with sharing of costs/chores/equity/governance, are more accessible across the socioecomonic spectrum and tend to build stronger communities.
hendzen 11y ago
This seems quite expensive given that the units are located in Crown Heights. (19 people * 1900 avg rent) / 7300 sqft = $4.68 per sqft Lets look at a typical unit [0] in Crown Heights. We'll look at large units (4+ br) to make it comparable as possible. It's 4k per month for a 1200 sqft space with for 4br - so $4000 / 1200 sqft = $3.33 per sqft So about 40% more expensive than a normal shared unit + plus way more roommates. I think the extra 800-1000 difference per month should pay for food and laundry with plenty to spare for savings. [0] - http://streeteasy.com/building/348-eastern-parkway-brooklyn/2e http://streeteasy.com/building/348-eastern-parkway-brooklyn/...
- tdaltonc 11y ago
  Yes, that 40% is called profit margin.
  - jarcane 11y ago
    If you think landlords in New York aren't factoring in a profit margin, I've got this great bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you.
- thesyndicate 11y ago
  Founder here! Keep in mind that we provide laundry, utilities, and shared kitchen and bathroom supplies. We also host a lot of dinners and shared events / meals / etc for the community. It's also month-to-month and furnished.

50 points by edward 11y ago

caser 11y ago

I'm really excited to see more companies like this. While the economics are interesting, I think the real value that co-living brings is community. People used to get their feelings of belonging from their church and religion. As religion takes a backseat, people are finding that sense of community in new areas (like Crossfit). I personally felt really lost toward the end of university. Due to injury, I was unable to play sports, which is where I'd found my "tribe" growing up. I also was doing a lot of soul-searching after shutting down my last company, and so was feeling disconnected from a lot of the people in the startup world. Anyways, through a series of random events, I ended up starting a coliving experiment for developers & entrepreneurs in Costa Rica. I thought the value would be having interesting people around while abroad, but the best part was getting thrown into a collegial atmosphere, where people would just hang out and shoot the breeze about anything they found interesting. It was a really profound experience for me, and I've since spent 11 out of the last 14 months in various co-living arrangements around the world through Hacker Paradise. There are definitely drawbacks to intense levels of community. You have a bit less privacy, and interpersonal friction will arise. Still, I think it can be a really remarkable experience for people in their "Odyssey years," while they're still trying to figure out what they want to make their life's work. I know I've made closer friends through co-living than I would have otherwise.

archagon 11y ago
I had the exactly the same experience with student co-ops in college, as did many of my peers. Honestly, I think it's just a better way of living in general, Odyssey Years or not. I'd love to still live in a self-sufficient, close-knit community when I'm 70 years old. (Maybe structured as a bit more of an eco-village than a giant house, maybe not.)
- metasean 11y ago
  I'd like to have semi-eco-villages that could also support a more mobile community. In particular, I'd like to be able to travel and live in an RV, moving between "villages" as desired.

amyjess 11y ago

Reading the first paragraph makes me glad I don't live in New York. $1800+ to rent a bedroom in a shared space? Really? Living in Texas, I have an entire 1500 sq. ft. townhouse all to myself for $1220.

shampine 11y ago
Everyone has different priorities. Big cities come with benefits that you have to pay for to enjoy. Different strokes for different folks, you can't really compare the two at just a price point and size. There is so much more.
robrenaud 11y ago
As far as I can tell, this isn't even in a nice part of New York.
- garethsprice 11y ago
  It's a working class Caribbean neighborhood right now but was originally built as housing for middle-class Victorian clerics, so there's a lot of beautiful but run down buildings & great transport links (ie. ripe for gentrification). In the 90s it was extremely rough (race riots), now it's fairly safe and the artisanal coffee shops and trendy restaurants are creeping southwards as the city's population continues to grow & get priced out of other areas. Guessing a flop house packed with affluent young tech bros is going to throw some gasoline on the Crown Heights hyper-gentrification fire, for better or worse.
oops 11y ago
Their prices are pretty high compared to typical rentals in the same neighborhood. You could get a 1 or maybe 2 bedroom apartment for the same money.

nxm 11y ago

So the only question is...can I Airbnb my bedroom?

thesyndicate 11y ago
No - subletting / listing a bedroom on Airbnb at Common isn't allowed. It's a pretty tight community of 19 people so your roommates would definitely notice.

wehadfun 11y ago

I would have liked something similar years ago. Here are a few features I would like Free dinner, breakfast, and snacks A small kitchenet Free or cheap onsite storage Include all util also Wifi and premium cable pay rent online Security cameras way to let guest into building without going out to meet them Fully furnished option In unit laundry or laundry service Amazon locker

archagon 11y ago

I stand firmly by the idea that a co-living arrangement should never be structured as a traditional corporation. Make it a co-op, and make each member (roughly) an equal shareholder. Have the incentives align. Are there any such public co-living startups?

tdaltonc 11y ago
Do monastic orders qualify for your definition of co-op?
thescriptkiddie 11y ago
You don't even have to go full co-op, you can make it a simple nonprofit. This arrangement is not uncommon in college towns.

tzier 11y ago

This article is from October 19th, so 2 months old. They also announced their funding back in July. Have there been any updates since then? What is fill rate? What is feedback from inhabitants like? Updates on next residence timing?

thesyndicate 11y ago
Founder here! We were totally full when we opened in October. Our next building - also in Brooklyn - opens on January 10th.
- gatsby 11y ago
  Congrats on the initial traction! I feel like "co-living" is definitely a huge opportunity, and someone will get it right. Curious what you're going to do differently than Campus and several other SF-based companies that had a similar model but couldn't scale beyond 15-20 locations: http://www.businessinsider.com/campus-co-living-san-francisco-new-york-closes-2015-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/campus-co-living-san-francisc...
  - thesyndicate 11y ago
    Lots of things - mostly that we have the entire buildings rather than single units, which is particularly important in NYC where we're operating right now. We also partner with real estate funds and investors to purchase vacant buildings rather than leasing units off the market.
- tdaltonc 11y ago
  How do you keep a small charismatic group from totally dominating the common spaces. In other words, how do you keep them "common," so that even the introverts can feel comfortable using them?
  - dopamean 11y ago
    I hate to be exclusionary but wouldn't you think that if you were so introverted that you had a hard time sharing a space with other people then maybe you shouldn't live in a shared situation like this?

beatpanda 11y ago

Can somebody please start a co-living startup that actually increases the quality of housing for the money instead of decreasing it? "I have a great business idea -- you can rent a bedroom on Craigslist for about $1,200 a month, so let's add bluetooth and charge $2,000 a month!" These people are parasites and they need to be stopped.

jarcane 11y ago
Precisely. Two grand a month to live in what is essentially a boarding house, like the places I used to live when I was broke and worked as a cook, only with more hipster-friendly decor. That's absurd.
archagon 11y ago
Traditional co-op housing arrangements were developed to save money by pooling resources. Now, it looks like the SV twist on the idea is heading in the opposite direction. I guess that's the only way you can get venture funding for a project like this. The corollary is that if a great, cost-saving, truly cooperative tech house actually gets founded, you won't hear about it on HN.

lmcnish14 11y ago

Wow have times changed. I lived in a (much less nice) communal building in Bushwick, Brooklyn a few years ago and it was just $500 a month for a room. As a newbie to NYC at the time, it was really great to jump into a fully formed community but after a while, it was just too much to be surrounded by people all the time. You could tell others were having the same issues and people started to pick fights over silly things and it just became a very stressful experience. This place is significantly nicer than where I stayed but I wonder how the issues that come with putting a large group of diverse people together in one space will be handled.

milkshakes 11y ago
the market hotel by any chance? i have fond memories of that spot.
- lmcnish14 11y ago
  It was called Surreal Estate. I believe it's still there but at this point, I assume anyone still living there is just a squatter.

egusa 11y ago

brad hargreaves (the founder of common, also co-founded General Assembly), is an amazing guy; super humble, really willing to help others. it's great to see him having so much success.

tdaltonc 11y ago

$1800/bedroom/month sounds like a lot for someone trying to bootstrap a start-up. My co-founders and I pay $730/bedroom/month in Los Angeles, and it's more than enough space. It would be nice to share a bigger space with other startups, but not $1800 great.

dominotw 11y ago
Yea really expensive for most people. Also, the article doesn't seem to mention who is responsible for 'communal areas'
- chrismartin 11y ago
  Common areas are cleaned by people who can't afford to live there.

rdl 11y ago

I'd love to do this for my next startup (in Seattle and/or Berlin; maybe an Asia location too). It's the most efficient way to work. I've done it with Sealand/HavenCo and in war zones, but not recently elsewhere. It's unsustainable when startup isn't the primary (or, basically only) thing in your life, but there are a few potential solutions: 0) Be flexible. The biggest bar to this is probably people with families/kids (which I personally hope to never have, but I respect that some people, including great employees/founders/etc., do and deeply value having family interactions) -- do whatever is possible to address this. It's probably not a one size fits all solution. "Live on site 2-3 days/week, wfh otherwise" might actually be preferable to a lot of people with families than spending 1-2h/day commuting and 8-12h/day working 5 days/week. 1) Duration limited (say, a startup from 0 to 10-15 employees and $20mm/yr revenue -- could be 1-3y). Even if the duration is long (3y), having a specific time where it will change as the default helps. 2) People who are inherently suited to this (which probably works well for, say, early career security people; not as well for civil engineers.) 3) Intermittent -- work/live like this for months at a time, then go back "home". 4) High budget: live/work like this AND have enough money to have a "regular" house/apartment elsewhere, or at least go on great vacations. 5) Deep mission at the startup: "save the world from spy agencies", yes. "Build a more efficient billing system for other startups", probably not. 6) Strongly prioritize "no assholes rule" in hiring. (The worst thing about having one coddled asshole is then everyone else feels the need to equivalently act like an asshole to be taken seriously; it's self perpetuating) 7) Have an obvious physical reason for being in the same place -- easier to co-live in a remote location building a dam, than it is to co-live in an office park in Kentucky to build billing software.

napoleond 11y ago
> which probably works well for, say, early career security people; not as well for civil engineers Just curious: why do you think this would be less likely to work well for civil engineers?
- rdl 11y ago
  It may be selection bias of the ones I've met, but they seem older/families/more traditional, vs. early-career security people. That might be because a lot of the civil engineers I've met have been government employees.

cobookman 11y ago

The Negev is another coop that started in the bay area, but has recently expanded: http://thenegev.com/ http://thenegev.com/ Was a great landing pad, and would highly recommend to those moving to SF. Its $1250/month for a shared room month-to-month.

milkshakes 11y ago
i have only heard shady things about this place both anecdotally and in the media[1][2][3]. this does not seem to be the atmosphere that common is aiming for. is there another side to the negev story that i'm missing? [1]:http://sfist.com/2014/11/21/tech_co-op_the_negev_faces_further.php http://sfist.com/2014/11/21/tech_co-op_the_negev_faces_furth... [2]:http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/legal-problems-continue-for-two-negev-tech-communes-in-sf/Content?oid=2913249 http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/legal-problems-c... [3]:http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/sro-tenants-tales-tell-scary-story/Content?oid=2912562 http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/sro-tenants-tale...

chrismartin 11y ago

As someone who always prefers shared housing, this does not sit well. It's not a cooperative, it's a dorm/hotel-like arrangement where laundry and cleaning tasks are outsourced to people who can't afford to live there. You're paying someone else to be your mom. That model works for short-term arrangements where inhabitants are very busy (students and travelers), but this sounds like it will become a gentrified echo chamber of Rob Rhinehart disciples. I agree with other commenters that cooperative ownership models, with sharing of costs/chores/equity/governance, are more accessible across the socioecomonic spectrum and tend to build stronger communities.

hendzen 11y ago

This seems quite expensive given that the units are located in Crown Heights. (19 people * 1900 avg rent) / 7300 sqft = $4.68 per sqft Lets look at a typical unit [0] in Crown Heights. We'll look at large units (4+ br) to make it comparable as possible. It's 4k per month for a 1200 sqft space with for 4br - so $4000 / 1200 sqft = $3.33 per sqft So about 40% more expensive than a normal shared unit + plus way more roommates. I think the extra 800-1000 difference per month should pay for food and laundry with plenty to spare for savings. [0] - http://streeteasy.com/building/348-eastern-parkway-brooklyn/2e http://streeteasy.com/building/348-eastern-parkway-brooklyn/...

tdaltonc 11y ago
Yes, that 40% is called profit margin.
- jarcane 11y ago
  If you think landlords in New York aren't factoring in a profit margin, I've got this great bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you.
thesyndicate 11y ago
Founder here! Keep in mind that we provide laundry, utilities, and shared kitchen and bathroom supplies. We also host a lot of dinners and shared events / meals / etc for the community. It's also month-to-month and furnished.