4 ms·

Rest assured, those of us here in the southern hemisphere are not susceptible to that kind of hype. In AU summer very much started (both officially and by popu

by Jedd 11y ago

Rest assured, those of us here in the southern hemisphere are not susceptible to that kind of hype. In AU summer very much started (both officially and by popular understanding) 23 days ago - as it does every year - on the 1st of December. Having seasons that match calendar months is terribly convenient. It also aligns with our experience of hot and cold -- January is typically the hottest month (the middle of the three summer months) and July is typically the coldest month (the middle of the three winter months). At least in the more populous urban areas of Straya. The British approach of starting a season on the solstice / equinox has always seemed somewhere between weird and quaint (more towards the inconvenient end of weird). Not least because the shortest / longest / median day varies drastically - I think up to 4 days variance? - depending on where we are in the leap year cycle, but also (IIRC) based on where you're standing in relation to the dateline. I wonder what the appeal is of sticking to variant, non-calendar delineation of seasons? (I appreciate that's what the article attempts to explore .. but they don't seem to answer the question.) The author suggests January and July are the months with the most extreme temperature, so it presumably isn't related to any north / south hemisphere landmass disparity skewing temperatures.

maxerickson 11y ago
What does anyone do that actually depends on the legally defined dates of the seasons? I guess a stupid law might be written to follow the traditional definition rather than the weather, but that's about all I can think of.
- murbard2 11y ago
  There is a "winter truce" for evictions in France, but it runs from November 1st to March 31st.
louthy 11y ago
> The British approach of starting a season on the solstice / equinox has always seemed somewhere between weird and quaint (more towards the inconvenient end of weird). Surely the reasons for the definition of seasons was for farmers to know the position of earth relative to the sun so they could make good decisions about the likely weather for growing? To say it's weird is quite an extreme position to take, there are clearly rational reasons for it. Even if they're not as important to our society as they once were.
- Jedd 11y ago
  Perhaps, but I'm not so sure that was the reason for the definition. For example, I know the dates of the solstices and equinoxes, and I'm (at best) a casual gardener. The fact those dates don't align with what I think of as the start of the seasons doesn't prevent me from remembering them. In the location I do most of my growing, I'm actually more interested in tracking first and last frost - these are the primary constraints on many crops. These certainly don't align with equinoxes or solstices, let alone 1sts of months. Farmers, presumably, are even more intimately aware of the usual dates (and variances) for these events in their region. That's why I don't think it was the reason for labelling the solstice / equinox as the start of each season.
famous 11y ago
Hi. I wrote the article. To tell you the truth, I've not (yet) found a reason why people in some places (it seems to be mainly North America and some in the UK) define seasons as beginning on solstices and equinoxes. Everyone just seems to repeat that that's when the seasons start, even if they acknowledge that there are other definitions. I'd be curious if anyone finds a good explanation of why and how this definition took root!
- jerf 11y ago
  I hypothesize that it is because we can predict the astronomical days centuries in advance, which in particular means that we can print calendars with "start of $SEASON" days on them with no fear that weather or something will contradict them. I live in Michigan, which has a highly unstable climate. In practice as it happens right now, we're really more in "late Fall" than what we'd usually call "winter". Other years, winter has come in early November. Only the astronomical events are predictable in advance. I offer as evidence the fact that the primary place I encounter these dates is on calendars. And once they are there, I think we have very little left to be explained; trusting words that appear to source from an authority even over the direct personal experience of our own eyes is a very common problem.
- Jedd 11y ago
  Cool! Though if you've searched exhaustively, I don't like our chances of finding anything. : ) Did you find anything that indicated a causal relationship against the astrological / zodiac - they mostly start/stop on 21st of months I think?
- Jedd 11y ago
  Cool! Though if you've searched exhaustively, I don't like our chances of finding anything. : ) Did you find anything that indicated a causal relationship against the astrological / zodiac - they mostly start/stop on 21st of months I think?
3JPLW 11y ago
I'm not sure any of us are. In the US, summer is colloquially from the last Monday of May to the first Monday of September (Memorial-Labor Days). Many seasonal businesses use this definition for opening or extending hours. And it's within a week or two of what most schools do, too. Calling the astronomical seasons illogical is quite a stretch. Sure, it's ~18 days off from the average weather patterns, but those can vary substantially from year to year, too. But everyone knows that. And folks are doing just fine.
- umanwizard 11y ago
  The Memorial-Labor thing wasn't hard and fast, either. Growing up I remember it being either Memorial-Labor, all of May, June, July, and August, (I'm from Phoenix...) or "whenever I didn't have school".
  - chrismcb 11y ago
    In the US, the unofficial summer is Memorial to Labor day. Sure, as a kid you probably thing of summer as "not school." But most USians generally consider summer as between Memorial and Labor Day.

by Jedd 11y ago

maxerickson 11y ago

What does anyone do that actually depends on the legally defined dates of the seasons? I guess a stupid law might be written to follow the traditional definition rather than the weather, but that's about all I can think of.

murbard2 11y ago
There is a "winter truce" for evictions in France, but it runs from November 1st to March 31st.

louthy 11y ago

> The British approach of starting a season on the solstice / equinox has always seemed somewhere between weird and quaint (more towards the inconvenient end of weird). Surely the reasons for the definition of seasons was for farmers to know the position of earth relative to the sun so they could make good decisions about the likely weather for growing? To say it's weird is quite an extreme position to take, there are clearly rational reasons for it. Even if they're not as important to our society as they once were.

Jedd 11y ago
Perhaps, but I'm not so sure that was the reason for the definition. For example, I know the dates of the solstices and equinoxes, and I'm (at best) a casual gardener. The fact those dates don't align with what I think of as the start of the seasons doesn't prevent me from remembering them. In the location I do most of my growing, I'm actually more interested in tracking first and last frost - these are the primary constraints on many crops. These certainly don't align with equinoxes or solstices, let alone 1sts of months. Farmers, presumably, are even more intimately aware of the usual dates (and variances) for these events in their region. That's why I don't think it was the reason for labelling the solstice / equinox as the start of each season.

famous 11y ago

Hi. I wrote the article. To tell you the truth, I've not (yet) found a reason why people in some places (it seems to be mainly North America and some in the UK) define seasons as beginning on solstices and equinoxes. Everyone just seems to repeat that that's when the seasons start, even if they acknowledge that there are other definitions. I'd be curious if anyone finds a good explanation of why and how this definition took root!

jerf 11y ago
I hypothesize that it is because we can predict the astronomical days centuries in advance, which in particular means that we can print calendars with "start of $SEASON" days on them with no fear that weather or something will contradict them. I live in Michigan, which has a highly unstable climate. In practice as it happens right now, we're really more in "late Fall" than what we'd usually call "winter". Other years, winter has come in early November. Only the astronomical events are predictable in advance. I offer as evidence the fact that the primary place I encounter these dates is on calendars. And once they are there, I think we have very little left to be explained; trusting words that appear to source from an authority even over the direct personal experience of our own eyes is a very common problem.
Jedd 11y ago
Cool! Though if you've searched exhaustively, I don't like our chances of finding anything. : ) Did you find anything that indicated a causal relationship against the astrological / zodiac - they mostly start/stop on 21st of months I think?
Jedd 11y ago
Cool! Though if you've searched exhaustively, I don't like our chances of finding anything. : ) Did you find anything that indicated a causal relationship against the astrological / zodiac - they mostly start/stop on 21st of months I think?

3JPLW 11y ago

I'm not sure any of us are. In the US, summer is colloquially from the last Monday of May to the first Monday of September (Memorial-Labor Days). Many seasonal businesses use this definition for opening or extending hours. And it's within a week or two of what most schools do, too. Calling the astronomical seasons illogical is quite a stretch. Sure, it's ~18 days off from the average weather patterns, but those can vary substantially from year to year, too. But everyone knows that. And folks are doing just fine.

umanwizard 11y ago
The Memorial-Labor thing wasn't hard and fast, either. Growing up I remember it being either Memorial-Labor, all of May, June, July, and August, (I'm from Phoenix...) or "whenever I didn't have school".
- chrismcb 11y ago
  In the US, the unofficial summer is Memorial to Labor day. Sure, as a kid you probably thing of summer as "not school." But most USians generally consider summer as between Memorial and Labor Day.